Why are opioid makers settling lawsuits for billions?

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

You think everyone who is prescribed these drugs with these brand names A) knows they're opioids, and B) knows what all the potential dangers are? Not everyone is at the same education level as the participants of this forum.

Precisely why there is the medical and pharmacy industry and boatloads of regulation between manufacturerers and end users. Bypass or manipulate it at your own risk.
Before you know it, people will be suing because they spilled their coffee on their lap - oh wait.....

[fazool]

Have you ever seen how pharmaceutical sales works?

[RustyAxe]

There isn’t a practicing physician in the USA that didn’t/doesn’t know that any opiate or opioid has the potential for addiction. Big Pharma pushed a product that they knew would have wide market appeal and demand (it is estimated that one in four American adult suffer chronic pain) ... that they convinced/bribed/rewarded docs to ignore what they learned in Pharmacology 101 is criminal IMO.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Wengr

Precisely why there is the medical and pharmacy industry and boatloads of regulation between manufacturerers and end users. Bypass or manipulate it at your own risk.
Before you know it, people will be suing because they spilled their coffee on their lap - oh wait.....

"People" aren't suing. The DEA and several states are suing for very good reasons. I would suggest reading the article I linked or one of many other resources about the nature of the lawsuits. This isn't about patients bypassing regulations, it's about companies doing so for profit. And the comparison to joke lawsuits like the McDonalds' coffee lawsuit is specious or simply woefully misinformed. They are in no way similar.

While the pharmaceutical industry is highly-regulated in many ways,[vii] laws and regulations concerning marketing and other practices relating to the distribution of opioids is a mishmash of silence, statutory law and regulatory law at both the state and federal levels, and governmental guidelines and policy pronouncements that do not have the force or effect of law. In addition, lawsuits concerning opioid sales can be filed by state attorneys general, state and federal agencies, and other political subdivisions. Finally, criminal actions sometimes are instituted by various prosecuting authorities against current and former employees of pharmaceutical companies accused of criminally promoting opioids.

https://nationalparalegal.edu/ViewNe...keOnNewsID=108

It strikes me as ironic that there is no sympathy for being misinformed about opioids, while being incredibly misinformed about the nature of these suits.

Who cries for big pharma while Americans die by the tens and hundreds of thousands?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

Indeed. Meanwhile I’m more outraged that I have to show ID to buy an antihistamine. Clearly I don’t have the necessary transcripts to blow my nose in a chem lab, much less cut meth.

well,,, Walter White looked pretty benign also

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by fazool

Have you ever seen how pharmaceutical sales works?

Yes up close and personal.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by Wengr

Precisely why there is the medical and pharmacy industry and boatloads of regulation between manufacturerers and end users. Bypass or manipulate it at your own risk.

That’s what the manufacturers and distributors are finding out now. Lying about and misrepresenting a drug’s real world effects, and selling huge quantities, far beyond what was required for legitimate prescription use, may finally result in consequences. But it won’t bring a single dead by overdose person back to life.

Personally, along with huge fines and penalties, I think jail time for corporate officers and owners is warranted.
YMMV

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by seannx

That’s what the manufacturers and distributors are finding out now. Lying about and misrepresenting a drug’s real world effects, and selling huge quantities, far beyond what was required for legitimate prescription use, may finally result in consequences. But it won’t bring a single dead by overdose person back to life.

Personally, along with huge fines and penalties, I think jail time for corporate officers and owners is warranted.
YMMV

Yes it varies widely as I actually speak here to all the doctor shopping and illegal acquisition of opioids that commonly occurs.

I certainly believe that the abuse of end users out numbers the occasional provider pushing to get some free golf clubs by a tremendous margin.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Wengr

Yes it varies widely as I actually speak here to all the doctor shopping and illegal acquisition of opioids that commonly occurs.

I certainly believe that the abuse of end users out numbers the occasional provider pushing to get some free golf clubs by a tremendous margin.

Your assertion isn't relevant to the opioid problem or the lawsuits in question.

How do you think people get hooked on opioids such that they're abusing them? Because they were over-prescribed initially. So whether there are more people abusing them than pushing them is irrelevant. One pusher can get a whole lot of people hooked. It's like saying there are more meth addicts than meth dealers. Granted.

The question to ask, is why are Americans taking so many more opioids than other countries?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41701718

[JCave]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

The question to ask, is why are Americans taking so many more opioids than other countries?

I've only known one opioid addict, my oldest brother. He's always loved chemicals and now gets them for free, thanks Medicare. All he had to do was ask his doctor. Simple. Then when ready for something "better" all he had to do was ask, again. Oxycodone to the rescue, and chased by alcohol, he was a happy man. Of course his 4th wife divorced him and I kicked him out of my house after six months of pure hell.


In this country doctors seem all too anxious to prescribe pills. Do doctors receive financial rewards from suppliers? Sometimes it seems so.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by JCave

I've only known one opioid addict, my oldest brother. He's always loved chemicals and now gets them for free, thanks Medicare. All he had to do was ask his doctor. Simple. Then when ready for something "better" all he had to do was ask, again. Oxycodone to the rescue, and chased by alcohol, he was a happy man. Of course his 4th wife divorced him and I kicked him out of my house after six months of pure hell.


In this country doctors seem all too anxious to prescribe pills. Do doctors receive financial rewards from suppliers? Sometimes it seems so.

That is a tough situation. I'm genuinely sorry to hear it, but unfortunately it's not surprising given where we are. The incentives to prescribe and the lack of regulations against over prescribing conspire to make this an epidemic in our country.

I hope your brother can turn it around. I hope we as a country can find real ways to fix this instead wasting time fuming about lawsuits that are actually going to reduce the number of deaths. There are real Americans out there dying every day.

In July, 2014, “[a]ttorneys for Santa Clara and Orange counties…filed a complaint on behalf of the People of the State of California alleging that five of the largest opioid manufacturers — Purdue Pharma, Cephalon, Janssen Pharmaceuticals, Endo Health Solutions and Actavis — deceived physicians and patients alike by exaggerating the effectiveness of opioids for the treatment of long-term, non-cancer pain and withholding information regarding the dangerous, addictive effects of the drugs. The complaint claimed that there is no reliable scientific evidence for the benefits of opioids in this regard and that the pharmaceutical companies were deliberately deceptive in order to increase their profits. As a result, according to the [suit], a rise in opioid addiction has led to a myriad of deleterious social effects in California.”[xiii]

https://nationalparalegal.edu/ViewNe...keOnNewsID=108

[srick]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

There isn’t a practicing physician in the USA that didn’t/doesn’t know that any opiate or opioid has the potential for addiction. Big Pharma pushed a product that they knew would have wide market appeal and demand (it is estimated that one in four American adult suffer chronic pain) ... that they convinced/bribed/rewarded docs to ignore what they learned in Pharmacology 101 is criminal IMO.

Absolutely right, Rusty. Every doc learns about this in the first year of med school, so first, I hold them responsible.

Second, when you have deep, intractable pain, these drugs are a godsend.

Third, the pharmacists should have raised red flags as prescriptions were ongoing and excessive.

Last, the money was too good to give up: Drug companies, doctors and pharmacists.

This is a very ugly problem and we will lose a lot more folks before it calms down. Understand that drug abusers are not morally bankrupt or scum of the earth. They are just as likely to be the Cub Scout that you had in your den ten years ago, or the mom next door. It's easy to become addicted and extremely difficult to stop once you become addicted. For some, all it takes is a week or two of pain medication (to become addicted) and that's it.

Now - a public service annoncement: If you have any of these meds in your medicine cabinet, get rid of them (many police stations have recycling boxes). One of the common ways that opioid drugs are obtained is when a family member or visitor purloins a vial from your medicine cabinet. Also, if your pet has any pain (read fentanyl) patches, same thing goes.

[JCave]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

That is a tough situation. I'm genuinely sorry to hear it, but unfortunately it's not surprising given where we are. The incentives to prescribe and the lack of regulations against over prescribing conspire to make this an epidemic in our country.

Two things that sicken me about our country, this so called "healthcare" system and massive amount of junk food. My last doctor asked why I objected to the cost of meds, insurance pays for it anyway, he said. Medicare pays without questioning, as does insurance. Little if any oversight? This train is bound for trouble, not glory.

Admittedly, I am very much anti-pharmaceutical. The only one on our shelf is my wife's thyroid. Better living through chemistry is a lie...

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by srick

Absolutely right, Rusty. Every doc learns about this in the first year of med school, so first, I hold them responsible.

Second, when you have deep, intractable pain, these drugs are a godsend.

Third, the pharmacists should have raised red flags as prescriptions were ongoing and excessive.

Last, the money was too good to give up: Drug companies, doctors and pharmacists.

This is a very ugly problem and we will lose a lot more folks before it calms down. Understand that drug abusers are not morally bankrupt or scum of the earth. They are just as likely to be the Cub Scout that you had in your den ten years ago, or the mom next door. It's easy to become addicted and extremely difficult to stop once you become addicted. For some, all it takes is a week or two of pain medication (to become addicted) and that's it.

The lawsuits allege that the pharmaceutical companies intentionally and systematically misled both doctors and patients about the efficacy of these drugs, how they worked in clinical trials, and offered big money incentives to prescribe them. Certainly the doctors play a role in all of this, but just as certainly most were given false information about the efficacy and addictive nature about of the drugs. That's what the suits are about. Blatant fraud for profit by pharma.

I'm on board with your other comments, but the first puts it on the doctors far too much IMO. It makes sense at first glance but doesn't account for the depth of the fraud perpetrated by the pharma companies.

[srick]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I'm on board with your other comments, but the first puts it on the doctors far too much IMO. It makes sense at first glance but doesn't account for the depth of the fraud perpetrated by the pharma companies.

Dirk - as background, I spent my first two years in med school before becoming a dentist. I have a DEA license that allows me to prescribe these meds.

Yes, pharma does have a responsibility here, and their advertising was deceptive, but all of these drugs in question are classified as FDA Schedule II:

Schedule II drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with a high potential for abuse, with use potentially leading to severe psychological or physical dependence.

Any one of us who has a drug license should know chapter, line and verse about these schedules. Plus, we pay a hefty fee to be licensed. So bottom line, I'm not real happy with the docs that are a part of the problem.

Thanks for listening.

Rick