Small Differences - The Tonerite Experience

[AcousticDreams]

Each of us has a conception of a perfect sound for our style of playing & music choices.

Sometimes there is but a Small differences between a great sound, and that of an even better sound for our needs. Sometimes we can achieve that little bit of better through small adjustments. A different nut and saddle material, or just in the way which we fine tune the nut and saddle.

Of course, there is no substitute for a great sounding guitar to begin with. We are certainly not going to move mountains with small adjustments.

I have Tonerited three guitars… I perceived an improvement on two of the three. Two of my Tonerited guitars, I perceived as having a bigger bass. Especially noticeable on the 6th string. There has been lots of discussion on this forum as to if Tonerite makes a difference or not. True or not, Imagination or Not, I can only attest for what I perceive.
I had been afraid to Tonerite my favorite guitar. I was very happy with the sound it had. I have owned this guitar for a year and half..and play it 90% of the time over any of my other guitars.

I took One of my Tonerited Dreads and compared it with my Favorite non Tonerited Dread. The two dreads are not identical, they have the same Top wood, but Different Back and sides. Tonerited Dread seemingly had more bass than my non Tonerited guitar. I played both guitars side by side for quite some time, over a several day period, just to make sure.

Desiring more bass for my non Tonerited favorite guitar, I finally got up the nerve to take a chance and Tonerite that guitar.
One hundred and forty four hours later, I once again compared the two guitars side by side. And yes, my favorite guitar now seemingly has more bass now. I am very, very pleased.

No exacting graphed charts for verification. No Sound clips before and after. This is just what I perceive comparing the two guitars side by side before and after.
I believe there are other changes as well besides the increased bass. What that is I could not say for sure. Possibly more bloom of each string?

Sometimes a small little change, is just enough to take us to the next level. Right now I am pleased.

[Rosewood99]

Does it make the guitar any louder? That's what I'm looking for.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Does it make the guitar any louder? That's what I'm looking for.

I could not say with any kind of authority.

In another thread about body size and headroom, Alan Carruth had this thoughtful response:
"Note that 'power', 'loudness' and 'projection' are different things. A big guitar puts out more sound in the bass range, and that tends to sound 'louder' close up, and particularly to the player. I also often wonder if there's not a 'big dog' effect in this: that basso 'woooof' is more intimidating than the treble 'yip' of a small dog: we associate the deep sound with a powerful beast, and may do the same with a deep sounding guitar."

So while I perceive the guitar having a deeper bass...so I might also perceive some kind of Loudness factor that is associated with that deeper bass.
And if a Tonerite were to say improve the sustain as well....that might also be perceived as loudness as the note is not decaying as fast.

I would certainly not buy a Tonerite with the hopes of increasing more volume. I would buy a Tonrite with the hopes of a little more bass and overall openness. Bloom-Sustain-Clarity in small dosages?

What ever the effect, the difference is little. But then again...a little is sometimes all we need. I am certainly very happy with the results.

One of my dreads is not a canon like the other two are. While I did notice an increased bass on that guitar as well after Tonriting, the guitar is still soft spoken. If there is some sort of volume increase it is still not enough to overcome the guitars shortcoming in volume to begin with.

[RP]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Does it make the guitar any louder? That's what I'm looking for.

Tonerite? I thought that's what hearing aids were supposed to do....

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

...[INDENT]I have Tonerited three guitars… I perceived an improvement on two of the three. T...

I took One of my Tonerited Dreads and compared it with my Favorite non Tonerited Dread. The two dreads are not identical, they have the same Top wood, but Different Back and sides. Tonerited Dread seemingly had more bass than my non Tonerited guitar. I played both guitars side by side for quite some time, over a several day period, just to make sure.

[INDENT]Desiring more bass for my non Tonerited favorite guitar,...

No exacting graphed charts for verification. No Sound clips before and after. This is just what I perceive comparing the two guitars side by side before and after.
I believe there are other changes as well besides the increased bass. What that is I could not say for sure. Possibly more bloom of each string?

Sometimes a small little change, is just enough to take us to the next level. Right now I am pleased.

Can you be more specific of the wood type of this later guitar that you Tonerited... and then the previous ones? Tonewood, I think, makes a huge difference. My maple 614ce was magically transformed while the Tonerite did very little for my 814ceDLX. Both have spuce tops.

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Does it make the guitar any louder? That's what I'm looking for.

The volume will increase minimally at best from a Tonerite, and would occur because of increased harmonics should it open up a lot. If you want more volume there are many other things you can do to achieve that. Which strings and gauge do you usually string your guitar with? Often achieving more volume is counter-intuitive and sometimes even defies common thought.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Each of us has a conception of a perfect sound for our style of playing & music choices.

Sometimes there is but a Small differences between a great sound, and that of an even better sound for our needs. Sometimes we can achieve that little bit of better through small adjustments. A different nut and saddle material, or just in the way which we fine tune the nut and saddle.

Of course, there is no substitute for a great sounding guitar to begin with. We are certainly not going to move mountains with small adjustments.

I have Tonerited three guitars… I perceived an improvement on two of the three. Two of my Tonerited guitars, I perceived as having a bigger bass. Especially noticeable on the 6th string. There has been lots of discussion on this forum as to if Tonerite makes a difference or not. True or not, Imagination or Not, I can only attest for what I perceive.
I had been afraid to Tonerite my favorite guitar. I was very happy with the sound it had. I have owned this guitar for a year and half..and play it 90% of the time over any of my other guitars.

I took One of my Tonerited Dreads and compared it with my Favorite non Tonerited Dread. The two dreads are not identical, they have the same Top wood, but Different Back and sides. Tonerited Dread seemingly had more bass than my non Tonerited guitar. I played both guitars side by side for quite some time, over a several day period, just to make sure.

Desiring more bass for my non Tonerited favorite guitar, I finally got up the nerve to take a chance and Tonerite that guitar.
One hundred and forty four hours later, I once again compared the two guitars side by side. And yes, my favorite guitar now seemingly has more bass now. I am very, very pleased.

No exacting graphed charts for verification. No Sound clips before and after. This is just what I perceive comparing the two guitars side by side before and after.
I believe there are other changes as well besides the increased bass. What that is I could not say for sure. Possibly more bloom of each string?

Sometimes a small little change, is just enough to take us to the next level. Right now I am pleased.

Remember...per the famed Original...not the current...Collings Forum "Mega Tonerite Experiment/Thread"...

The changes you perceive will most likely only be temporary without continued regular use of the Tonerite, and thus without continued regular use, the guitar will revert...in most cases, per the thread...back to it's pre-Tonerite voice/tone/dynamic response.


Also from the Collings Forum thread, whether there was also an increase in volume was somewhat hard to positively determine because folks were not sure if what they heard was increased volume...or...just increased bass response and overall more open, looser total tone response across all the strings.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Can you be more specific of the wood type of this later guitar that you Tonerited... and then the previous ones? Tonewood, I think, makes a huge difference. My maple 614ce was magically transformed while the Tonerite did very little for my 814ceDLX. Both have spuce tops.

The Tonerite is really designed to effect the top/top bracing more than the back and sides, so back and side wood should really not make a difference.

Some tops just respond better than other tops to the Tonerite treatment. Spruce tops and especially Red Spruce tops that are tight and stiff when new seem to respond the most noticeably followed by Sitka, and then Euro and Englemann. New guitars/new tops respond much more noticeably than older/used/broken in guitars/tops...except for old guitars that have sat unused for long periods of time and have gone to sleep...then on those specific old/used guitars the Tonerite seemed to work much better than on used guitars that were/are regularly played.

Again, this is all info from the Collings Forum Tonerite thread from about 6 or 7 years ago.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Can you be more specific of the wood type of this later guitar that you Tonerited... and then the previous ones?

Two of the guitars are the exact same model, a Larrivee D40. Both have the same tops which is Austrian Moonwood Tops( which some people classify as a type of Red Spruce)

One is a Austrian Walnut back and sides. And the other is a Amazon Rosewood back and sides.

The third guitar is also a Larrivee Dreadnought, but in the standard series with a Sitka Spruce top and an African Walnut Back and sides. I saw improvement in all three Dreads. But more so with the D40's. There is a Fourth Dread that I also Tonrited. But saw less of a difference with that one.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

The changes you perceive will most likely only be temporary without continued regular use of the Tonerite, and thus without continued regular use, the guitar will revert...

I Tonerited the two Dreads sometime in February, if I remember correctly(although it could have been March). And both of them are still showing increased sound characteristics. And I do not even play those two guitars much.

But even if it is true that I will have to re-apply Tonerite treatment to my guitars, I will gladly do so. Because I am really loving the difference. That little difference is just enough to make the kind of difference I have yearned for.

[Yrksman]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Remember...per the famed Original...not the current...Collings Forum "Mega Tonerite Experiment/Thread"...

The changes you perceive will most likely only be temporary without continued regular use of the Tonerite, and thus without continued regular use, the guitar will revert...in most cases, per the thread...back to it's pre-Tonerite voice/tone/dynamic

I agree with the above. I use my Tonerite to “wake up” guitars that I haven’t played in a long time. I’m not looking for anything in particular just recognising, with half a century of experience, that most guitars sound relatively muted after being unplayed for a considerable period. I find the Tonerite works well but I fully accept that if a Tonerite treated guitar goes back in its case and is left for another long period it will revert and need the treatment repeated. Seems obvious to me and not a problem.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Yrksman

I agree with the above. I use my Tonerite to “wake up” guitars that I haven’t played in a long time. I’m not looking for anything in particular just recognising, with half a century of experience, that most guitars sound relatively muted after being unplayed for a considerable period. I find the Tonerite works well but I fully accept that if a Tonerite treated guitar goes back in its case and is left for another long period it will revert and need the treatment repeated. Seems obvious to me and not a problem.

I don't see how that's possible. I have a 2002 Martin that sounds so much better than when I got it because it has opened up over years of playing. I can not play it for six months and it still sounds great. I don't believe that a guitar that has opened up can "close."

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I don't see how that's possible. I have a 2002 Martin that sounds so much better than when I got it because it has opened up over years of playing. I can not play it for six months and it still sounds great. I don't believe that a guitar that has opened up can "close."

Well...try a year or more, or years or more of not playing the instrument...

Plus, it just depends on the sensitivity of the particular instrument, how lightly built/braced, and just how that particular top and top bracing responds to longer periods of inactivity.

It is a fairly well accepted notion in the acoustic guitar world that guitars will "go to sleep" to some degree or another if they are just left sitting unplayed for any constant length of time. That "constant length" of time just depends on the given guitar.

And the Tonerite really does seem to help in re-awakening sleepy guitars and maintaining oft unplayed guitars in some semblence of readiness to perform.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Aspiring]

For my side I have recently tried the tonerite on 4 instruments.

A brand new Breedlove Journey which was Sitka / Brazilian, a lightly used 2019 Kronbauer TDK with Sitka / Black Limba, and a lightly used three year old Breedlove Masterclass Sitka / Ciaro Walnut and for grins a short period on an Emerald X7 Nylon carbon.

The Journey had a fairly dramatic opening up both increase in volume and better tone. More overtones and you can feel the vibrations while playing now in the neck and the back of the body quite strongly.

The Kronbauer also improved with more richness to the tone. The Masterclass didn't appear to change much. And the Emerald didn't appear to have much impact.

I had outside validation on the Journey as well. A friend of mine who had tried the Journey when I first got it and then after the treatment went from being meh on it to being blown away by it and I didn't tell him that I had done anything.

Interestingly enough I had been playing the Kronbauer a lot lately and the other day when I pulled the Journey out it sounded muddy. I put it back on the tonerite for a couple of hours and it did appear to wake back up in comparison.

In contrast to others experience I am still on the same strings I used with the tonerite so I am looking forward to the new string experience as well. It did not appear to kill the strings.

My method of comparison is vs my other instruments and how I feel about the tone / sound so not particularly scientific.