The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 10-05-2021, 03:37 PM
Larry Pattis's Avatar
Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
Humanist
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,947
Default

Porsche Macan Turbo is the *only* car you should be considering.

The Cayenne is good (like a new GTS, once again with a V8), but it's just not nearly as nimble as the Macan.

You're used to a 911...stick with smaller and nimble.

JMNSHO.
__________________
Larry Pattis on Spotify and Pandora
LarryPattis.com
American Guitar Masters
100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists

Steel-string guitars by Rebecca Urlacher and Simon Fay
Classical guitars by Anders Sterner
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-05-2021, 07:26 PM
IBKuz IBKuz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto, GTA
Posts: 383
Default Wagon vs. SUV

Coming from a 911, a SUV will likely not be the embodiment of performance. They will have power and comfort but will still be an SUV. Since you are used to Porsche, take a look at the “Panamera Sport Turismo“. This will give you excellent performance, the carrying capacity of a wagon, and luxurious interior.

The main difference between a wagon and SUV, is the SUV can carry taller items. The Turismo can still carry a lot (similar to the Macan), but will drive like a car (likely better gas mileage as well). Another similar vehicle is the “Audi RS 6 Avant”. My preference would be for the Turismo, but you can save some money with the Avant. Test drives would allow you to feel what fits best for you.
__________________
Ian K.

2018 Michaud OO-R
2012 Webber Dreadnaught *SOLD*
2010 Eastman E20OM
1994 Guild D30
1979 Yamaha FG375S (retired)
1974 Norman B30 (retired)

Last edited by IBKuz; 10-05-2021 at 07:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-05-2021, 09:11 PM
Larry Pattis's Avatar
Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
Humanist
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,947
Default Most ERGONOMIC but fast SUV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBKuz View Post
Coming from a 911, a SUV will likely not be the embodiment of performance. They will have power and comfort but will still be an SUV. Since you are used to Porsche, take a look at the “Panamera Sport Turismo“. This will give you excellent performance, the carrying capacity of a wagon, and luxurious interior.



The main difference between a wagon and SUV, is the SUV can carry taller items. The Turismo can still carry a lot (similar to the Macan), but will drive like a car (likely better gas mileage as well). Another similar vehicle is the “Audi RS 6 Avant”. My preference would be for the Turismo, but you can save some money with the Avant. Test drives would allow you to feel what fits best for you.


The Panamera Sport Turismo is quite a bit lower than the Macan, so access is actually pretty low…not quite as low as a 911, but close. The Sport Turismo does have a chassis “lift” setting to make access in and out of the cabin a bit easier. I think it’s about a 3” lift from the lowest chassis setting. This feature also helps in any parking lot situation with concrete curbs and/or sidewalks.

The Turismo has about 49 cu. ft. of cargo capacity with the rear seats down, and the sloping hatchback limits this a bit…so it’s not huge, by any stretch of the imagination. This is vs. 53 on the Macan.

It’s wheelbase is quite a bit longer than the Macan…it’s much more of a touring-monster than the nimble feel of the Macan.

For myself, and for road trips, I’m totally on-board with the Sport Turismo, actually…and it’s not too low for me…but if I was comparing only for a “fun driving” feel (which is how I view any 911!), I would likely recommend the Macan.

A test drive will tell all…
__________________
Larry Pattis on Spotify and Pandora
LarryPattis.com
American Guitar Masters
100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists

Steel-string guitars by Rebecca Urlacher and Simon Fay
Classical guitars by Anders Sterner
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-06-2021, 07:30 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My mom's basement.
Posts: 8,674
Default

FYI: None of the high end and Porsche SUVs discussed are as good in poor traction scenarios as many think they are. I know this painfully well from our ski club that's more a private ski area than anything else. As time and demographics have changed we had some wretched messes from people driving some of these vehicles.

The manual transmission and many performance AWD vehicles get wheel spin too easily. Powerful AWD vehicles with automatics still get in a catch 22 where they can't make traction like a Subaru.

Every year we get 1-5 days of carnage and temper when people worth a lot of money on the hoof try to drive on the road sections that say stop or 4x4 only.

My 89 mother just started shopping for high end CarUVs asking for help. I doubt we'll try a Porsche, but she's interested in VAG products and the electrics. I already learned it will be months to get some vehicles.

My boss doesn't have his Rivian yet but he's got a Model Y. It's all only having friends and family but his Model Y, my cousin's experience with the S, and a coworker's e-Tron (Audi) changed my interest. I'd want electric or a wagon with manual transmission.

It's early but the Rivian seems a pretty interesting alternative to the Tesla, VAG and Ford leadership in the area.

All cars are so great these days that a year ago we spent about $30,000 less on a car than planned and have no regrets. It went to our kitchen. I'm glad we checked out so many different vehicles, and I realized how much more I drive the kitchen than a car. It will be interesting to do the new round of shopping with my mother because the product choices are quite changed in that short time.

__________________
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-09-2021, 10:23 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 18,560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyhu View Post
If you do some quick Google searches, you will discover that:

[SIZE=“1"]1. Tesla’s are MUCH less likely to catch fire than gas powered vehicles. Specifically, “ From 2012 – 2020, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 205 million miles traveled. By comparison, data from the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and U.S. Department of Transportation shows that in the United States there is a vehicle fire for every 19 million miles traveled.” But any time there is a fire in a Tesla, it it treated as a BIG DEAL. but it is not.
2. That any concerns about using the Jaws of Life were raised 8-10 years ago, and have been addressed (first by training responders, and recently by modification of the Jaws of Life equipment.
3. There wasn’t any recent accident involving a Tesla in which someone died because the jaws of life couldn’t be used safely. There was a recent accident in TX in which a Tesla crashed and caught on fire, but the jaws of life were not a part of the story…two men died, but not because they could not be rescued.

In other words, most of the resistance to Teslas is just irrational psychological resistance, to something that is new and not readily understood…but this resistance and fear is not rooted in a firm understanding of facts and statistics. Any time there is a safety related problem with any Tesla, people talk and act as if other cars driven by human drivers are safer, but Teslas are definitively and demonstrably MUCH safer, though they are not (and never will be) perfect. Nonetheless, some people and some vested interests create misinformation, propaganda, and straw men to argue that Teslas are less safe.

It reminds me of people who were opposed to using seatbelts when they first started appearing in cars in the 1960’s, and who asserted they would rather be “thrown free” if they were in a significant accident… We eventually saw through these silly arguments and their faulty logic…and we will again, eventually.[/SIZE]
Thanks for the rational analysis.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-21-2021, 11:46 PM
N4640W N4640W is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: SoFla-CO West Slope
Posts: 170
Default

Oh, and I am not a fan (at all) of touch screens.

As for fast, perhaps we need the OP's position on "fast". Fast for what you need (plus a cushion of course), or fast as what you want?[/QUOTE]

1. Touchscreens have no place on a vibrating locomotive device that has to deal with the physical realities of earth.

2. People in CA drive like there’s no tomorrow. People in FL drive like it’s jousting. NY people drive with the patience of saints……until they run out.
Sooooo…… torque, pickup, handling and power. They are 6,500 Lb scooters which would do fine with 400 HP and I can live with 270 HP. Acceleration is crucial.
__________________
Eddie

“If Immanuel Kant, can Ghengis Kahn?”

Collings cust 000 shrt Koa b/s Eu Spruce top
Santa Cruz cust OM shrt Maple b/s Germ Spruce top
Martin D-41 Dan Fogelberg Lmt edit
Rainsong 2001 ‘Hawaiian’ WD 1100 all CF
Milagro Rosewood b/s Euro Spruce top Classical
Taylor cust GA EIR b/s Addi top Florentine cut
Journey carbon fiber “Overhead” breakdown travel
Fender Standard American Strat
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:53 AM
edcmat-l1 edcmat-l1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 528
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
Can’t speak to ergonomics, but for fast I’d look at the Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat. At 710 HP it will be more than fast.

Jack
This. Bone stock 11.5 second 1/4 mile ET. You want the fastest SUV, this is it.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-22-2021, 07:58 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My mom's basement.
Posts: 8,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4640W View Post
Oh, and I am not a fan (at all) of touch screens.

As for fast, perhaps we need the OP's position on "fast". Fast for what you need (plus a cushion of course), or fast as what you want?
1. Touchscreens have no place on a vibrating locomotive device that has to deal with the physical realities of earth.

2. People in CA drive like there’s no tomorrow. People in FL drive like it’s jousting. NY people drive with the patience of saints……until they run out.
Sooooo…… torque, pickup, handling and power. They are 6,500 Lb scooters which would do fine with 400 HP and I can live with 270 HP. Acceleration is crucial.[/QUOTE]

On the touch screens, this past summer some automotive engineers who've been assigned to Ford BEVs and now projects with the engineering school here joined our weekly bike rides. Someone else in our circle of MTB riders has a local firm that consults mostly with Honda but he was a key engineer with the Ford GT40. They've dispelled myths like point 1.

One pointed out how he could drop and hit all sorts of solid state electronics that won't take damage the way conventional car interior components would. Beyond the reliability, they brought up manufacturing costs and repair costs.

A dear friend RIP was an engineer at the Rockwell Collins firm and he worked on well-proven electronic cockpit display and components saying we'd see stuff like that coming to most automobiles.

Refrigeration racks are like an array of engines with pistons and vibrate because fewer pistons than most engines. The new era control panels we have bolted in those run 24x7x365 and some have been doing that for 12 or more years.

Tesla has been delivering electronic dashboards for around 10 years and has become a top selling car. The way news preys on negative, I don't see horror stories about failed Tesla dashboards.
__________________
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-22-2021, 08:22 AM
David Eastwood's Avatar
David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,509
Default

I don’t think the questions around touchscreen suitability are about reliability.

They’re about ergonomics, and the wisdom of relegating more and more control functions to a device which requires the user to take his or her eyes off the road to use.

Here’s one of many interesting articles I found on the subject:

https://uxdesign.cc/why-touchscreens...s-69b6ff3d4355
__________________
Martin 0-16NY
Emerald Amicus
Emerald X20
Cordoba Stage

Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo

Last edited by David Eastwood; 10-22-2021 at 08:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-22-2021, 08:48 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My mom's basement.
Posts: 8,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Eastwood View Post
I don’t think the questions around touchscreen suitability are about reliability.

They’re about ergonomics, and the wisdom of relegating more and more control functions to a device which requires the user to take his or her eyes off the road to use.
Our German car is a part-all digital instrument panel and I've been in others with more but not actually tested the Porsche CarUVs. Still VAG products. You have to look hard to or actually think about them not being a conventional instrument panel. PACCAR delivers a lot of vehicles to a reactionary bunch - truck drivers. If a late model Kenworth or Peterbilt is turned off you can see it's no classic cab KW or Pete. If it's turned on it's same and other vital data displayed better than ever.

Some surely do better with the menus than others even in same company - try a late model Forester vs Outback for example. An Outback still gives you two small (my opinion) knobs much like the past two generations of same vehicle.

The availability issues have us trying a lot of vehicles right now. The ergonomics issue that stands out isn't in basic or classic design but the way higher end models have SO much stuff to differentiate themselves from the entry and mid-levels that have become so good.

Admittedly the Macan discussed only got quick look and feel, but the Audi it's based on also seemed crazy after getting in our VW based on same platform. Maybe I'd have thought differently when I was more of a car enthusiast, or if I was still driving either side of 20,000 miles a year. The whole process makes me jealous of those on the continents where the Mk 8 R estate or other wagons are available. The Mk 8 R will come to the US but there's not much storage in that car as cool as I think they are.

__________________
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-24-2021, 08:39 PM
N4640W N4640W is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: SoFla-CO West Slope
Posts: 170
Default

[QUOTE=imwjl;6838133]1. Touchscreens have no place on a vibrating locomotive device that has to deal with the physical realities of earth.

On the touch screens, this past summer some automotive engineers who've been assigned to Ford BEVs and now projects with the engineering school here joined our weekly bike rides. Someone else in our circle of MTB riders has a local firm that consults mostly with Honda but he was a key engineer with the Ford GT40. They've dispelled myths like point 1.


You missed the point. My dissatisfaction with touch screens has nothing to do with reliability. Vibration and personal preference is my concern. The lack of tactile feedback many times requires visual verification that a touch screen selected parameter has been actually deployed or engaged. This requires directing vision back to the screen taking away visual environmental awareness if only for seconds. If you are sorting through drop down menus the time of distraction multiplies.

If you are operating a bouncing vehicle, be it on the ground, on or in the water or through the atmosphere it is frequently difficult to fingertip actuate touch screen selections. Some manufacturers such as Garmin advise the anchoring of the operative hand somewhere on the instrument panel to improve accuracy of fingertip placement. Flight schools proscribe more than 3 interventions on a touch screen before returning visual attention outside the aircraft for situational awareness.

Voice acknowledgement (AI), HUD, sensory detection, dual operator confirmation (check list) and direct visual verification are the only ways I am aware of to ascertain a particular command has been activated. All expensive or impractical solutions. You do not have to look at a brake pedal, steering wheel, landing gear handle, turn signal indicator, flap switch, light switch, push to talk button, gun trigger, horse reins, your kid’s ear, etc. etc. etc. to determine the intended effect was indeed put into action.

Yes, I am a [sort of] analog man in a digital world. Awaiting improved ergonomics, I remain,
__________________
Eddie

“If Immanuel Kant, can Ghengis Kahn?”

Collings cust 000 shrt Koa b/s Eu Spruce top
Santa Cruz cust OM shrt Maple b/s Germ Spruce top
Martin D-41 Dan Fogelberg Lmt edit
Rainsong 2001 ‘Hawaiian’ WD 1100 all CF
Milagro Rosewood b/s Euro Spruce top Classical
Taylor cust GA EIR b/s Addi top Florentine cut
Journey carbon fiber “Overhead” breakdown travel
Fender Standard American Strat
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-25-2021, 07:02 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My mom's basement.
Posts: 8,674
Default

[QUOTE=N4640W;6840048]
Quote:
Originally Posted by imwjl View Post
1. Touchscreens have no place on a vibrating locomotive device that has to deal with the physical realities of earth.

On the touch screens, this past summer some automotive engineers who've been assigned to Ford BEVs and now projects with the engineering school here joined our weekly bike rides. Someone else in our circle of MTB riders has a local firm that consults mostly with Honda but he was a key engineer with the Ford GT40. They've dispelled myths like point 1.


You missed the point. My dissatisfaction with touch screens has nothing to do with reliability. Vibration and personal preference is my concern. The lack of tactile feedback many times requires visual verification that a touch screen selected parameter has been actually deployed or engaged. This requires directing vision back to the screen taking away visual environmental awareness if only for seconds. If you are sorting through drop down menus the time of distraction multiplies.

If you are operating a bouncing vehicle, be it on the ground, on or in the water or through the atmosphere it is frequently difficult to fingertip actuate touch screen selections. Some manufacturers such as Garmin advise the anchoring of the operative hand somewhere on the instrument panel to improve accuracy of fingertip placement. Flight schools proscribe more than 3 interventions on a touch screen before returning visual attention outside the aircraft for situational awareness.

Voice acknowledgement (AI), HUD, sensory detection, dual operator confirmation (check list) and direct visual verification are the only ways I am aware of to ascertain a particular command has been activated. All expensive or impractical solutions. You do not have to look at a brake pedal, steering wheel, landing gear handle, turn signal indicator, flap switch, light switch, push to talk button, gun trigger, horse reins, your kid’s ear, etc. etc. etc. to determine the intended effect was indeed put into action.

Yes, I am a [sort of] analog man in a digital world. Awaiting improved ergonomics, I remain,
I'm not a fan of many of the interfaces. It was part of the choice we made with the car purchase last year and what made the last ever US VW wagons so appealing. Ironically for now times, we ended up getting a car about 1/2 the price we were planning to spend and I'm sure would find same attraction without the "rona specials" now long gone.

Now shopping with my mother we're reminded again. Especially so with the VAG, Honda and Toyota brand families because you feel, hear and see what they have in common and the high end are somewhat or to me very much into too much or overkill.

My feeling of too much is somewhat satisfied by those makers having premium versions of their standard brands. I'm not as reactionary as many I know but am getting there with the vehicles that have a lot of complexity with interfaces to match.
__________________
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-25-2021, 08:59 AM
Mbroady's Avatar
Mbroady Mbroady is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Asheville via NYC
Posts: 6,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest 928 View Post
My wife and I like Subaru; easy to get into, zippy, all-wheel-drive-stable. Our old one has 160,000 miles and never given us any grief. Our new one is actually bigger than we like, but it still has the Subaru qualities we like.
Another fan of Subaru.
Supposedly, there coming out with a new version of the Subaru Baja. Though it will still be considered a compact SUV it will be bigger and more powerful then the Smaller Baja the made a decade ago.
__________________
David Webber Round-Body
Furch D32-LM
MJ Franks Lagacy OM
Rainsong H-WS1000N2T
Stonebridge OM33-SR DB
Stonebridge D22-SRA
Tacoma Papoose
Voyage Air VAD-2
1980 Fender Strat
A few Partscaster Strats
MIC 60s Classic Vib Strat
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-25-2021, 10:59 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My mom's basement.
Posts: 8,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
Another fan of Subaru.
Supposedly, there coming out with a new version of the Subaru Baja. Though it will still be considered a compact SUV it will be bigger and more powerful then the Smaller Baja the made a decade ago.
Revisiting the current generation Outback is on deck for the current shopping with my mother. The turbo and premium interiors now available make it a contender. The 2020+ model got a big jump in how solid and quiet they are. You still feel the low center of gravity compared to other CarUVs.

I haven't followed return of the Baja but have not been looking. Soon to be empty nesters and maybe retired, I'd consider the modern iterations of the El Camino and Ranchero if my trail work keeps at same level and/or I take on some cabin projects but overall I hope I stick with not replacing cars as often.

The Subaru transformation has been very interesting. Once niche and somewhat quirky cars that have become popular and top picks for safety and reliability.
__________________
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-25-2021, 07:24 PM
N4640W N4640W is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: SoFla-CO West Slope
Posts: 170
Default

Love Subaru. Specially love all their commercials on TV. (Got a bad rep for a while as “old flower child” rides. You didn’t want to get behind one with a ‘coexist’ bumper sticker on a mountain road in Southern CO). Agree the 21-22 outbacks are very nice. Not easy to get in/out of since they’re so low but better than before. Indestructible flat four boxer engines and suspensions. Unexpectedly absent fm the Miami Int. auto show this year. But definitely a contender.
__________________
Eddie

“If Immanuel Kant, can Ghengis Kahn?”

Collings cust 000 shrt Koa b/s Eu Spruce top
Santa Cruz cust OM shrt Maple b/s Germ Spruce top
Martin D-41 Dan Fogelberg Lmt edit
Rainsong 2001 ‘Hawaiian’ WD 1100 all CF
Milagro Rosewood b/s Euro Spruce top Classical
Taylor cust GA EIR b/s Addi top Florentine cut
Journey carbon fiber “Overhead” breakdown travel
Fender Standard American Strat
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=