K&K Trinity with Solstice problem: any suggestions?

[Dustinfurlow]

Thought I'd chime in here (though I know it's an old thread) might help someone out who has had the same issue and provide assurance to the problem...

I own three guitars with K&K trinitys installed within a week of purchasing them: Mcilroy (September 2016), beneteau (November 2016) and a larrivee (march 2017). I recently purchased a Solstice from a fine forum member (works wonderfully as it should)....but only with my McIlroy and Beneteau. I had used the regular Trinity Preamp that runs on 9v until the last week or so for all three of the guitars with no issues, just thought it could sound better. I was confused as to why my larrivee (my main gigging guitar) was producing a hiss on channel 2 (phantom power was on) and barely getting any signal but just last week had plenty of microphone signal with my trinity Preamp...

All I can say is: thank god for this forum.

I was pulling my hair trying to figure out why the mic worked fine through the trinity Preamp but then the solstice wasn't doing anything but ONLY on the newest installed Larrivee, "did I fry the mic because too much voltage?" Kept ringing through my head.

Thanks to John at Shorelines comment I'm pretty sure that I just got a newer-stock trinity in my Larrivee that has the mic protected against higher voltage preamps like the DTar and I'll just have to do what the original fella who posted this did and get a different internal mic....
My mcilroy and beneteau had trinitys installed last fall but apparently its recent stock like what I got for my larrivee that is the root of the issue. I'm rambling at this point but I figured it'd be more confirmation for potential buyers: if you want the k&k trinity, make sure you're okay with using either the stock Preamp, the quantum blender, or the really expensive Grace Felix / Pendulum which has lower voltage option for phantom unlike the Dtar or a Raven Labs.
I can agree with what most people have said that the Solstice is a cut above so I probably won't be buying anymore Trinity Solo's as the stock Preamp is decent sounding at best and no full-time performer likes buying/worrying about 9v replacements. Will definitely still be dual sourcing with pure mini's though.

Thanks again for this feed that helped me out immensely. Cheers!

[AndyC]

Let's hope the guys at K&K are keeping on eye on this thread - because their proprietary approach to pre-amping isn't doing them any favours at all.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Let's hope the guys at K&K are keeping on eye on this thread - because their proprietary approach to pre-amping isn't doing them any favours at all.

I can't blame them for trying to encourage the adoption of their preamps but they're already specialized as they require a low-impedance input. It's already less likely that someone would use a Baggs or Fishman preamp but I guess we can all get greedy.

I would encourage them to produce better preamps that people want to use instead of making their pickups more difficult to accessorize.

[Dustinfurlow]

The Trinity preamp is decent for sure, in my ramble I didn't mean for it to come across that it's a piece of junk, definitely not...as I type this I'm on break at a gig where I brought the Trinity preamp because I knew the room and large glass windows near the stage was gonna be fussy and not pair well with the full-sound of the DTAR. However for outdoor, small concert halls and cafes I will def be using my solstice. The tone difference is night and day to my ears

[Raggamuffin]

I made a comment in another thread about recently installing a K&K Trinity and using it successfully with a Solstice and was directed to this thread.

I guess I just lucked out.

I bought my K&K Trinity Solo from Shoreline back in December and just now got around to installing it. When I got the K&K back in December I opened the box and saw a warning label they had in it cautioning against using it with 15v phantom power systems. Knowing that I was planning to use a Solstice I sent an e-mail off to Shoreline and was told it wasn't an issue (the same as what many, many here of the AGF have reported for years).

So, two weeks ago I got around to installing it. Then had to order a TRS cable that came last week. This past weekend put it all together and it worked great. I guess maybe I got one of the last K&K units that didn't have the power protector. (Date of manufacture on the box is Nov 15, 2016. That aligns well with Dustinfurlow's experience 4 posts up from this one.) I'm kinda bummed about this 'cuz I was about to order another one for my McIlory. It is unfortunate that K&K seems to be playing this game.

[Neon Soul]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

Bummer.

You should get in touch with K&K and ask their advice too. They will definitely take care of you if the pickup is faulty.

-Mike

No they won't.

I got in touch about a faulty preamp in their top of the line Powermix Trinity system and was essentially told that I was out of luck cause I was in the UK.

No apology, no offer of repair, no suggested solution, just rude one sentence replies from their tech.

I asked for confirmation of the part code I needed to replace the damaged part, if I was to pay to have it repaired on my own, and simply received a one word response with the part code.

I couldn't recommend K&K any less.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Raggamuffin

…I'm kinda bummed about this 'cuz I was about to order another one for my McIlory. It is unfortunate that K&K seems to be playing this game.

Hi R-muffin
You might want to search for Doug Young's installation of mics from other companies. He reports he has gotten them used from eBay, and successfully installed them in dual source rigs with (I'm pretty sure) either Raven or DTAR Solstice preamps.

[Raggamuffin]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi R-muffin
You might want to search for Doug Young's installation of mics from other companies. He reports he has gotten them used from eBay, and successfully installed them in dual source rigs with (I'm pretty sure) either Raven or DTAR Solstice preamps.

Thanks Larry. I'll check it out.

Many of your posts here on the AGF helped convince me to go the K&K + Solstice route. I was very pleased with the result & don't regret it a bit. But what a shame that K&K doesn't support that option any more.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Raggamuffin

Thanks Larry. I'll check it out.

Many of your posts here on the AGF helped convince me to go the K&K + Solstice route. I was very pleased with the result & don't regret it a bit. But what a shame that K&K doesn't support that option any more.

Hi R-m
Thanks for the kind things you said.

I love my dual source rigs, and glad they have all been in my guitars for years. I have a DTAR Solstice, and two Raven preamps. I've had to put together rigs before, and could again it that's what it took to have a sound I love.

And if K&K's preamps were on a par with the others I'd likely own one. They just don't have the patch-bay outputs I want/need, nor a sensible layout for the way I think/work/mix in their top end (Quantum) preamp.

Top quality in the pickup and mic is part of the equation, and K&K got that part right. But form and function are paramount for me, as is interconnect-ability in more complex stage environments. That's where their preamps fall short for my needs. They probably evaluate and think setups like mine are in the minority and opt for more simplicity in their designs. That's why I think the option to use other preamps should not be taken away from potential clients.

I actually own/use the belt pack K&K trinity unit, and it lives in my Voyage-Air case when I travel. I also have to carry a passive Direct Box just to be able to interface it with PA systems and my amp simultaneously in a way I can adjust both amp and PA independently.

Thanks for the dialogue…

[prayash]

Just stumbled upon this thread during my own research and want to chime in..

I just got the Trinity mic + pickup system installed on my Stonebridge / Furch G24 and was super bummed to see that my K&K set (made in 2016) does in fact work with the D-TAR Solstice preamp but the phantom power somehow adds a super loud hum into my signal (I've isolated it down to the phantom power itself). It starts 60 Hz, then goes to 120Hz and 150Hz, and so.

Either I have a faulty Solstice unit or the K&K Trinity mic just doesn't want to play nice with the 15v phantom power supplied by the Solstice. I've ordered a Raven Labs PMB II that I found (fortunately) on Reverb.com and am hoping that the 9v supplied by that pre-amp will suffice, otherwise I will have to resort to the Trinity Pro system.

Will report back with results. Really appreciate everyone's input on this thread. You all are a helpful buncha folks!

[Ryan Alexander]

Hi prayash - just thought I would share this previous post of mine as an FYI:

I just wanted to follow up on this as I ended up buying a PMB-1 and a K&K Trinity system and had the chance to test them last night. I was able to confirm my earlier suspicion regarding the bias voltage. When running on battery power I measured 8.5v on the ring and the mic worked fine. When I changed over to the AC adapter, the bias voltage went up to 11.4v and the mic no longer worked. I only powered it on the adapter long enough to hear the same hiss that other users have been reporting, and it worked fine on battery power afterwards so no damage seems to have occurred.

So, despite the fact that K&K has taken a hard stance that one of their preamps MUST be used (the Quantum Blender and Trinity Pro both deliver 9v as per the spec sheets), it would seem that as long as the preamp chosen delivers 9v or less it should be suitable for powering these new Trinity systems. My Trinity was just purchased from Shoreline and is dated Oct 2017, so it's definitely a new version.

I also have a Solstice and measured about 14.5v coming from that, and since the AC powered Raven delivering 11.4v didn't work I didn't bother to go any further testing the DTAR.

There was a slight change to the PMB when version 2 was released - as per their old website: The PMB-II features 6dB more gain per channel than its predecessor (the PMB-1) as well as improved phantom power filtering.

Note that I'm not sure if they made any changes to the phantom power voltage that the unit provides. If you have a multimeter, you might want to check the voltage being supplied before you hook everything up.

[prayash]

Originally Posted by Ryan Alexander

Hi prayash - just thought I would share this previous post of mine as an FYI:

I just wanted to follow up on this as I ended up buying a PMB-1 and a K&K Trinity system and had the chance to test them last night. I was able to confirm my earlier suspicion regarding the bias voltage. When running on battery power I measured 8.5v on the ring and the mic worked fine. When I changed over to the AC adapter, the bias voltage went up to 11.4v and the mic no longer worked. I only powered it on the adapter long enough to hear the same hiss that other users have been reporting, and it worked fine on battery power afterwards so no damage seems to have occurred.

So, despite the fact that K&K has taken a hard stance that one of their preamps MUST be used (the Quantum Blender and Trinity Pro both deliver 9v as per the spec sheets), it would seem that as long as the preamp chosen delivers 9v or less it should be suitable for powering these new Trinity systems. My Trinity was just purchased from Shoreline and is dated Oct 2017, so it's definitely a new version.

I also have a Solstice and measured about 14.5v coming from that, and since the AC powered Raven delivering 11.4v didn't work I didn't bother to go any further testing the DTAR.

There was a slight change to the PMB when version 2 was released - as per their old website: The PMB-II features 6dB more gain per channel than its predecessor (the PMB-1) as well as improved phantom power filtering.

Note that I'm not sure if they made any changes to the phantom power voltage that the unit provides. If you have a multimeter, you might want to check the voltage being supplied before you hook everything up.

Thanks Ryan, this is super helpful info! The PMB I purchased didn't seem to come with a power supply so I guess I'll be stuck buying 9v batteries forever now until something better turns up. I have my fingers crossed that this setup will work as expected because it's been kind of a money sink. I have two questions for you:

1) Was the hiss you heard at a very specific freq (like 60Hz -> 150Hz -> 180.. onto higher partials), or was it a different sort of hiss? I think mine came from the D-Tar and not the mic. Regardless it was totally unusable, and I have a suspicion it's from the D-TAR overpowering the mic. But who even knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2) How did you measure using a multimeter? I have access to one but am not sure how to go about measuring the voltage on the PMB, do you hook up a TRS cable into the stereo input and toggle the phantom power on and measure the power supplied at the tip and ring? Have a guide or a picture I can refer to for such a task (not the most electronically savvy).

[ljguitar]

oops - responded to a zombie thread…

[Ryan Alexander]

My pleasure! K&K added voltage protection to their more recently manufactured microphones and the ~15v that Solstice puts out is now too much. I didn't want to be limited to what preamps I could use, so I decided to swap in an Audix L5O in place of the K&K silver bullet. I only listened very briefly to the hiss - just long enough to confirm that I was exceeding the max voltage.

To measure the voltage, you've basically got it right. Set the DMM for DC voltage in the correct range, put the black/common probe on the sleeve and the red probe on the ring. Let me know what you measure as I'm curious how your PMB-II compares to the PMB-1 units I've encountered. Good luck, the PMB is a great sounding preamp.

Originally Posted by prayash

Thanks Ryan, this is super helpful info! The PMB I purchased didn't seem to come with a power supply so I guess I'll be stuck buying 9v batteries forever now until something better turns up. I have my fingers crossed that this setup will work as expected because it's been kind of a money sink. I have two questions for you:

1) Was the hiss you heard at a very specific freq (like 60Hz -> 150Hz -> 180.. onto higher partials), or was it a different sort of hiss? I think mine came from the D-Tar and not the mic. Regardless it was totally unusable, and I have a suspicion it's from the D-TAR overpowering the mic. But who even knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2) How did you measure using a multimeter? I have access to one but am not sure how to go about measuring the voltage on the PMB, do you hook up a TRS cable into the stereo input and toggle the phantom power on and measure the power supplied at the tip and ring? Have a guide or a picture I can refer to for such a task (not the most electronically savvy).

[prayash]

Reporting back after finally getting my hands on the Raven Labs PMB II. With the K&K Trinity mic + pickup combo, this thing sounds absolutely awesome. I also like the option of not having to deal with a power supply as I find that sometimes can add static noise to the signal (it was also impossible to find online).

So, going from the K&K Trinity combo -> Stonebridge G24 -> Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 -> Ableton Live, this sounds exactly like I expected it to. Rich, clean and without any obnoxious hissing or humming. The multi-meter registers between 8.98 - 9.01 volts on the stereo cable after activating the phantom power. Also, I think the Raven Labs unit looks much better than the D-TAR Solstice, more compact and not as toy-ish looking. I like the solid red look!

Big thanks to Ryan Alexander and everyone else for their help on this thread. My search for the perfect pre-amp is over... at least for now. Hah.