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  #61  
Old 04-14-2021, 05:46 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Never ever make decisions based on the opinion of internet "experts".
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  #62  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 815C View Post
Never ever make decisions based on the opinion of internet "experts".
I haven't seen any derogatory comments specifically directed toward singing and strumming, but I often hear, "if all you want to do is play cowboy chords and sing," thereby inferring that if one want to be a real guitar player one needs to do something more. And then I start thinking that I'm deficient in what I'm doing. But when I get off the internet and out into the real world the musicians I'm coming into contact with are living off of cowboy chords and power chords, playing two or three strings up and down the neck.
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Last edited by rllink; 04-14-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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  #63  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:48 AM
soma5 soma5 is offline
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It seems to me that there is some sort of diagram with your guitar/music skills at the points. For example, one might have a triangle with singing, guitar solo playing, and guitar accompaniment skill as the three corners. Find where you are in that triangle and lead with your best combination. If you want to change the mix, then it's up to you to do that and find out where the result puts you. I know some really good singers who do rudimentary backup on their guitars and they are wonderful to listen to. There are some very good instrumentalists but I must say that that style of music is harder to communicate to an audience. Tommy Emmanuel will sing some of the time in his solo shows, even given his extraordinary command of all styles of guitar playing.
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  #64  
Old 04-15-2021, 04:44 AM
zztush zztush is offline
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I am strummer.

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Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
....a few of my favorite strummers and singers...

...Slaid Cleaves

....Jonathan Edwards

....Neil Young

...Ritchie Havens

....Dave Matthews

....Amos Lee

....Paul Simon

...John Prine

....not bad company...

...oh...and some guy named Bob Dylan
I've loved and respected these people since I was teenager as they were singer songwriters. I neither much care about their strum and nor mine.
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2021, 11:32 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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There’ve been strummers and pickers even before it was called guitar. A Spaniard by the name of Gaspar Sanz published a Baroque guitar method in 1674 that’s mostly for picking but includes a lot of material for strummers, too. I’ve linked to an image of a very cool chord chart from his method; hope it shows up here when I post. It’s fun to see the same old chords we’ve been playing forever in a 350-year-old chart!

A few things to remember: The guitar had only five strings at that time (double strings called courses), so there’s no low E string. When a finger is drawn with a ring on it, it means it’s not fretting anything. The letters are just a convenient system in use at the time and have nothing to do with the actual chord names.

http://www.bne.es/es/Micrositios/Exp...origen=galeria

I guess this is not exactly on topic. Just wanted to provide some encouragement for strummers. And if you can sing and play at the same time, that's more than I can do!

EDIT: Can't embed the image here. Click on the link, then click on the thumbnail image of the chart, and then click again to make it bigger.
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  #66  
Old 04-16-2021, 02:41 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Originally Posted by Nimiety View Post
Just curious about perception.

When I started with guitar, my goal was to learn to strum, so I could accompany beginner violin students. Many adults prefer fiddle music, and it's a way to help them keep time and provide a "performance" atmosphere which is a lot of fun - and different than a violin duet.

Then I realized that I can actually sing along with the guitar! After thinking I couldn't sing (maybe because I have a deep voice, likely contralto, and couldn't manage to fit in with the other girls), turns out I can sing (even if not especially well). Regardless, I'm pumped!

Then I read all the derogatory comments about cowboy guitars and 3-chord strummers, posers, etc. Rather discouraging.

So, fine. Maybe it's not a high-level achievement, but it's still an achievement. My current goal is to polish my strumming/singing the best I can.

Yet, I can't seem to find videos of polished "simple" performances. Lessons, yes. Examples during a lesson, yes. But not an actual performance.

Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?

I find it all a bit amusing too. Way back when (before my time even) people would gather in the parlour and sing and play instruments. Great way to engage and entertain. Now you have kids taking piano lessons (or other lessons) for years who won't play in public because they think they're not good enough, etc. Why can't it be simple?
A historian who authored a very interesting book on daily life in medieval England wrote that a big difference between then and now was that everyone sang as they walked and worked, some of that tradition survived in the navy as sea shanties but as we became industrialised singing at work became forbidden , somewhere long the line the attitude arose that only those with professional sounding voices should sing as it turned from a communally shared activity to a demonstration of personal acomplishment. Now only singing in church and at football matches remains as a context where it is considered socially aceptable for any one to sing.
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  #67  
Old 04-16-2021, 04:52 AM
FingahPickah FingahPickah is online now
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Ever met this guitar critic ?

"Oh.... so you're the lead singer but, JUST the rhythm player in the band... well, you guys sound great ANYWAY"... "Yeah, I used to play guitar too... I knew ALL THREE chords .... played 'em in alphabetical order, too, without even looking at my fingers..much. no problem... But I gave it up. I had a hard time keeping my C strings in tune and I didn't want to spend money on a better guitar... "

(Insert blank stare here)

Last edited by FingahPickah; 04-17-2021 at 05:56 AM.
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  #68  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:43 PM
golfski golfski is offline
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As a newer guitarist and new to signing, I definitely wanted to put these two skills together to entertain myself and friends.

It was very difficult at first but I found that getting a couple simple strumming patterns to the point that I could play them for any (most) song and built a muscle memory to them then I was able to sing and strum with those patterns. It eventually got easier and have introduced more strumming patterns to the mix while singing but I have now found the more difficult part has become knowing all the words to sing! I can strum/change chords by reading but doing that and reading the words to sing is a lot harder. You need to be able to read ahead while singing the current line, imo.

I will say, when I first started I was very discouraged because I couldn't sing a single word without breaking my strumming - but it came pretty quickly. I have been playing only about 4 months and can sing/strum at least 20+ songs, which has really unlocked so much more fun to playing.
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  #69  
Old 05-19-2021, 12:13 AM
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Cypress Knee Cypress Knee is offline
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Just when you think strumming is supposed to be easy, you find stuff like this on youtube:

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  #70  
Old 05-23-2021, 08:25 AM
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I'm a lifelong singer who, after years having no interest in being a guitarist, recently picked up guitar to accompany my own singing. I just got so terribly tired of waiting for somebody to come along and accompany me. I have a couple of good buddies who do that for/with me, but everyone's time is limited and I hate being dependent on someone else. So after years of leaving it to others, I am doing this for myself. Turns out I like it!

I find strumming more difficult than fingerpicking for some reason. So I started with fingerpicking and am working on strumming.

If you want to be inspired by some tasteful, simple guitar accompaniment for singing, Martin Carthy is the absolute king. I am surprised nobody mentioned him, though he is more a picker than a strummer. He does so much with just a few notes. You don't have to play like him (and do note that he plays in a tuning he made up because he didn't like how standard tuning fit his voice), but the general concept applies regardless of tuning or how you are sounding the strings.

The guitar should serve the song, not the other way around. It's humbling but freeing to look at it that way. You don't have to be a virtuoso to self-accompany, and if you are, maybe there are better applications for your virtuosity.

Those who think simple accompaniment is boring are missing the entire point of accompaniment. The song is primary and the accompaniment is secondary. If you want to do some fancy stuff, that's what a guitar break is for, but it's not needed unless (as others said) you're trying to impress the narrow-minded in the audience, which is not a measure of a good performance.

I'm lucky to live in a community where there are a large number of highly accomplished guitarists, each with their own niche. I don't think there is any value at all in trying to be just like them or anyone else. It would be folly for me to think that I could somehow ever measure up to them in skill given their lifelong devotion and thousands of practice and performance hours.

So I'm not putting myself through that frustration. It would be silly to try. Instead, I'm going to be the best ME that I can be, and I'm going to play in ways I enjoy to support my voice as I sing my songs. I love to listen to and appreciate other guitarists. And it turns out others like listening to me as well.

My guitar skills are pretty minimal, but I try to put what I have so far to tasteful use, and I continue working to expand what I can do. It helps that I am an experienced singer, so I have that going for me, but it doesn't matter.

If for you this means slow strumming with a gentle hand and an appreciation for how each chord resonates under and with your voice, that can be absolutely beautiful. Also play with how your voice combines with the guitar.

Quite a few of my pro singer-guitarist friends have said to me, "I don't really play guitar all that well; I just do it to self-accompany." Seriously, most pro folk singers have to be able to pull off a solo show, and people primarily come to hear them sing. If an audience wants fancy-pants guitar playing, there are plenty of other concerts for that.

Contralto voices are gorgeous. I am a woman with a low alto/high tenor end to my range, and I *love* singing down there. So lush and rich. Just be you, sing with your own voice, be like nobody else. There is nobody in this world with your singing or playing style (unless you're just copying everyone else). I recommend finding your own way of doing things.

If I were trying to fit someone else's idea of what a guitarist should be, I would have given up already. I'm too old to mold myself into someone different.

I have loved reading this thread, and it came along at the right time for me. Thanks to those of you here who reminded me that singing and playing at the same time is in itself something to be proud of. I'm learning to own my new identity as a singer-guitarist. Glad I'm not alone on the journey. Keep posting and keep strumming and keep singing!
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Last edited by worthy; 05-24-2021 at 09:16 AM.
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