Can someone explain a "12th Fret" guitar for me?

[Karunasamatha]

I see this term used a lot in discussions on here. I understand that it means the neck joins the body at the 12th fret, but what does this mean in terms of playability and tone? Why would someone seek or avoid this?

Cheers!

[jmagill]

Not only does a 12 fret neck move the bridge position lower, into the center ‘sweet spot’ of the top’s vibrating diaphragm, in many guitar designs it also uncouples the bridge from the braces underneath it, producing a voice that is less powerful than a 14-fret neck, but with a tone of great sweetness.

[John Arnold]

Using Martin designs as an example, there are no 12 fret models I am aware of with braces uncoupled from the bridge. The X braces on those and forward braced 14 fret models run under the wings of the bridge, usually intersecting the lower corners of the bridge.
The 12 fret Martin design does have a different response, but it is linked to the longer body and lower bridge, rather than the brace position.

[Dotneck]

Plus, a 12 fret slot head just looks so cool. Its a very traditional look.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Karunasamatha

I see this term used a lot in discussions on here. I understand that it means the neck joins the body at the 12th fret, but what does this mean in terms of playability and tone? Why would someone seek or avoid this?

Cheers!

Hi Karunasamatha (K from now on)

To some people a 12 fret is their holy grail, and to the rest of us, it's just a different voicing and a lot more difficult to reach above the 15th fret.

People often seek 12 fretters because of 12 fret 'lovers'.

It seems to be a very personal (and less prevalent) preference.

I played some, but never bought one because it certainly didn't do anything extraordinary for me.

[rstaight]

If Sillymustache could respond he would be able to explain the appeal much better than any of us could dream of.

Search for his video about them.

[zombywoof]

I own 12, 13 and 14 fret guitars. To me the difference in bridge placement between a 12 and 14 fret guitar is like the difference between hitting a snare drum in the center as opposed to more off to the side nearer the rim. But it is all a trade off which in this case obviously involves access to upper frets. So what you favor will come down to how you approach a guitar, what you want or need to get out of it. The 13 fret guitars are a pretty good compromise.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Using Martin designs as an example, there are no 12 fret models I am aware of with braces uncoupled from the bridge. The X braces on those and forward braced 14 fret models run under the wings of the bridge, usually intersecting the lower corners of the bridge.
The 12 fret Martin design does have a different response, but it is linked to the longer body and lower bridge, rather than the brace position.

It is my understanding that when Martin went from 12 to 14 frets they changed the body shape by shortening the upper bout leaving the bridge and bracing pattern in the lower bout unchanged. Gibson, on the other hand, did not alter the body but changed the bridge position and bracing pattern. Consequently, when Gibson came out with the Roy Smeck they had to again change the bridge placement and bracing to accommodate the 12 fret neck on what was a 14 fret body.

[varmonter]

I am a 12 fret "lover" if you will.
I currently own 2 an early 70s
Martin d28s and a Newer Breedlove
Parlor. The martin is a slothead.
It is a slope shouldered 12 fret d28.
It sounds really good.if I ever buy another
Acoustic it will probably be a taylor
712ce 12 fret. The cutaway gives
Access to more neck.

[KevinH]

Alan Carruth, as usual, has a nice explanation of bridge placement in this thread. As one would expect, it depends very much on the bracing, but generally the "sweet spot" is somewhere near the middle of the lower bout, which is where the bridge is located on my four 12-fret guitars.

Another characteristic of 12-fret guitars is that they bring the nut closer to you which, for some of us, makes it more comfortable to play. It's a shorter reach to the first fret.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by Karunasamatha

...but what does this mean in terms of playability and tone? ....Cheers!

Playability: if the scale length is identical between two "equal" guits whose only diff is 12F and 14F, then thee is no playability difference whatsoever other than upper-fret access. But it is not just playing at the 12th fret: one's hand butts up against the body, affecting how you play there, and how comfortable you are up there.
So depending on your hand and playing style, even playing at the 8th-10th frets can be less comfortable on a 12F as opposed to a 14F. But the 12F also puts all your fretting that much closer to your body; you're "reaching out" less which makes many feel like these are more comfy "easier playing" instruments.

Tone: more bass and low-mids generally, and this is achievable with a smaller body. So one is able to get a "fuller" or "deeper" sounding instrument with a smaller body typically than with a 14F ...like getting a "big sound" from a smaller guitar.

There are always tradeoffs when choosing an guit: this 12F vs 14F is no different from the myriad other choices one makes when evaluating this or that guitar. The difference, like so many nuances with different guits, is more easily explain when experience in your own hands than in verbiage.

Edward

[charles Tauber]

A twelve fret guitar is a budget model in which money was saved by only adding 12 frets, particularly attractive to those who don't play past the fifth fret and don't want to waste the money on frets that are only for decoration.


As a guitar maker, I can make whatever I want, so I'm not limited by what is commercially available. I prefer the comfort, physical balance and sound associated with smaller bodied guitars. Smaller bodied guitars often - not always - have shorter scale lengths. That makes it easier to make big stretches across frets. Many, not all, smaller bodied guitars have 12 frets to the body joint. So, for me, for those reasons, I tend to prefer 12 fret guitars.

If one plays in a "classical" posture, reaching above the 12th fret is easy enough, even without a cutaway. As a classical player, a steel string with 12 frets to the body is "natural", since that is the way classical guitars are usually made. No one seems to feel the need to have 14 frets to the body for a classical guitar where the demands on the instrument are at least as high as for a steel string.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by rstaight

If Silly Moustache could respond he would be able to explain the appeal much better than any of us could dream of.

Search for his video about them.

Huh ? Someone call me ? (I dunno, as soon as I turn my back!)

Inasmuch as you are either a Ford or Chevy (Vauxhall) kinda guy, I'm a Martin rather than Gibson kinda guy.

I foolishly sold my D35 it to buy a Martin J-40 which had a far more shallow neck profile a well as the thin 1 & 11/16" nut width.

I discovered that my playing style had developed so that i could no longer play the more intricate hammer on and pull off styles on such necks.

I was shown a Martin D35-S which was a 12 fret interpretation of the original pre 1934 Dreadnought design - complete with a 1 & 7/8" nut, and it immediately solved my fretting issues. Sadly it wasn't mine! (It belonged to Isaac Guillory).

This is the actual guitar :

Long story short, in '99 with the help of a dedicated sales person, I discovered the second Collings DS2h to come into the UK. It had an even better modified V profile and a 1 & 13/16" nut. Perfection for me.

It became my workhorse for solo, two trios and two bluegrass bands, at least, until I got a Collings DS1 which was even louder.

In the early '30s Martin determined that most wanted longer thinner necks to play three /four note rhythm chords like Perry Bechtel etc. - That's why they called the first redesigned (000) AND the first 14 fret dreadnought "Orchestra models"

The pre 1934 designs were/are beautiful, and more ergonomic; slotted headstocks are more practical (when tuning on stage) and the original slightly longer body makes for slightly less left arm extension and the picking hand lands directly over the sweet spot.

The 12 fret to body is fine for classical, flamenco and other latin styles, but for those who think more in an electric playing style with rhythm chords and notes above the 12th fret, then the tone and ergonomics of the "original" Martin designs may not be for them.

It seems that the 12 fret designs are slowly but surely coming back into favour - especially the 0,00, and 000 styles; sadly Martin have discontinued them all, but Collings, Santa Cruz and Eastman in particular still carry the banner thank goodness.

I made the following video in 2017, shorty after my throat cancer treatment so my commentary might not be very easy, but I've tried to demonstrate the advantages.

[jmagill]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Using Martin designs as an example, there are no 12 fret models I am aware of with braces uncoupled from the bridge. The X braces on those and forward braced 14 fret models run under the wings of the bridge, usually intersecting the lower corners of the bridge.
The 12 fret Martin design does have a different response, but it is linked to the longer body and lower bridge, rather than the brace position.

John, I bow to your experience and knowledge of Martin bracing patterns, which are probably more widely applicable to the readers of this forum.

However, my experience is with two non-Martin 12-fretters; one by Michael Bashkin, which uses fan bracing rather than an X, and one by Leo Buendia, which uses Leo's own take on the bracing used by his mentor, Ervin Somogyi. Incidentally, my description of the differences of a 12-fretter, including the comments about uncoupling from the bracing, was taken directly from Ervin's book, The Responsive Guitar, so perhaps it is applicable mainly for "Somogyi School" instruments.

Uncoupled or not, both of mine are pretty extraordinary instruments.

[drumstrummer]

Something worth mentioning because there is a lot of misunderstanding about it: A 12-fret can be, but is not necessarily short scale.