Cf to wood comparison of tonal qualities of nylon string guitars

[ceciltguitar]

In general, how would you compare the tonal qualities of a carbon fiber acoustic nylon string guitar to the tonal qualities of a wooden nylon string acoustic guitar?

Here’s my comparison, based on the tonal qualities of the 2 custom Emerald X-10s (2008 and 2018 models) that I have to numerous traditional classical and Flamenco guitars, and also several nylon string crossover guitars.

Both wooden and CF guitars can sound sweet. To my ears, wooden guitars have a broader palette of sounds ranging from raspy (playing near the bridge) to “sweeter” sweet.

Most wooden classical and Flamenco guitars can be louder than CF guitars.

A subset of volume response is the range of volume that can be produced in response to the amount of pressure applied by the right hand fingers. I will try to explain what I’m saying: if I could rate amount of pressure applied to plucking or strumming the string(s) from 1 to 10 compared to the amount of volume I got in response to the amount of pressure that I applied, I get a one to one correspondence at every level from 1 to 10 on a wooden nylon string guitar - level 1 pluck or strum gets a level one volume response, level 10 pluck or strum gets a level 10 volume response. Whereas with the same 1 to 10 pressure gradient on the X-10, the volume response to pressure never gets past 5 or 6.

Better bass response out of wood than the X-10. Maybe the bass response of the X-30 can compete with wooden nylon string guitars?

However, both X-10s have individual unique tonal qualities that I enjoy and appreciate, but cannot find words to describe.

I’m interested to hear the impressions of other players here.

Cecil;

I like your analysis. You, Tom 2, and a number of other players on this forum have maintained a neat analysis of wooden and cf nylon string guitars.

[SprintBob]

I believe the builders of carbon guitars are still on an evolutionary learning curve which to me means we are going to see continual refinements and perhaps even future choices in the tonal properties of carbon guitars in the future (like choosing between different tonewoods).

Strength properties and weights are greatly influenced by the laminate compositions (primarily the resin to cloth ratio) and the curing methods (ambient, temperature controlled, pressure controlled). The strongest and lightest laminates are built with pre-preg cloth where the cloth is pre-impregnated with a precise ratio of cloth and resin (typically epoxy) and then the curing of the structure is done in an autoclave where temperature, pressure, and curing time are precisely controlled.

I’m sure Emerald, Rainsong, McPherson, and others are probably employing some of these techniques in evaluating cloth weights, final laminate thicknesses, resin/cloth ratios, and curing methods to continually fine tune the tonal properties of their laminate structures. Given how good they are now, it should only get better. If supplies of sustainable woods become critical, it’s good to know this technology is in place.

[nootis]

I have EvanB's "old" electric X10 with nylon strings. It's really unfair to compare it to a wood nylon stringed guitar due to the fact that it is a thin bodied electric. Without it being plugged in, I experience the same 1 through 10 pressure gradient (5-6) as what the OP described. However when plugged in, I can wail on it a lot harder than I'd be comfortable doing with a wooden guitar.

I understand that it was an experimental guitar when conceived by EvanB and Alistair, but IMHO they hit on something worth exploring more of. I am quite fond of it.

Nootis;

Good to hear from you, glad you are liking the guitar. It was an experiment, much like the earlier X7 thin-bodied electric, two experiments that came out very positive. The kudos go to Alistair who heard me out and then did what was right.

[btbliatout]

Just putting in my 2 cents - I agree with the opinions above.

And not to drive us into an area that's too off-topic, my ideal situation is to have (1) a great CF acoustic that has enough volume/clarity (projection) to feel comfortable doing a classical performance with it in a concert hall, and (2) to have a great CF electric for band environments.

Regarding (1), the demand needs to be there to help companies continue development. I don't know how to help this along, all I know is that if someone could tell me they could make me a CF acoustic that matches or exceeds the volume of my Cordoba C9, and still manages to sound good, I'd be willing to spend a pretty sum to get it.

Regarding (2), I really want a CF version of Yamaha's SLG200NW, with revamped pickups/electronics. I'm quite pleased with the modeled sound that comes out of my SLG200NW after I've processed it some. I'd like to not have to equalize/process it though, hence I'd like revamped pickups/electronics. - In general, I'm ok with software being used to recreate the sound of a high end nylon guitar, as long as it works well. I suppose my issue is to figure out how one ensures the longevity of electronics, or the servicing/replacement of electronics that might eventually go bad. If one goes with electronics that are too niche, it may be impossible to maintain in the future.

bt;

I have the combination you mention. My X10 acoustic/electric is a superb instrument for chamber music (or what in the village is known as "tree bar.") My thin-bodied X7 electric with an active Barbera pickup lets me cut loose in the large venue community hall--with a lot of electrified accompaniment. I've gotten just about everything I want from Alistair's restaurant.