#16
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When Kevin Kopp built one of his K-185’s for me, I supplied the back and sides wood (koa,) the tuners (Gotoh 510’s,) the strap buttons (Schaller strap lock buttons,) and the pickup ( K&K Pure Mini.) He supplied the rest of the wood, the fret wire and of course the consummate skill to build it.
Because I supplied the koa and the tuners, he gave me a bit of a discount. He had to agree to use the wood I’d selected, though, which is not guaranteed with guitar builders. Fortunately, Kevin liked the wood I sent him. Hope that makes sense. Wade Hampton Miller |
#17
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Warfrat - I hope when you were giving away those free drinks you owned the bar.
Tended for a good friend, and we had 2 bartenders who were very generous with my friends stock, which coincidentally benefitted the 2. |
#18
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Quote:
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1952 Martin 0-18 1977 Gurian S3R3H with Nashville strings 2018 Martin HD-28E, Fishman Aura VT Enhance 2019 Martin D-18, LR Baggs Element VTC 2021 Gibson 50s J-45 Original, LR Baggs Element VTC ___________ 1981 Ovation Magnum III bass 2012 Höfner Ignition violin ("Beatle") bass |
#19
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I can't imagine asking a builder making me a custom instrument for a lower price. I figure that they know what they need to charge to cover their costs and make a living. I could see telling a builder that I need to be budget conscious and asking them to steer me in that direction. It's probably going to be things like choice of woods, binding material, fret material, and finish options, but you never know, they might have something stashed away that they would consider using at a discount.
I could be wrong, but I feel like the arrangement Wade describes may be unusual. Most of the builders I have met and/or dealt with strongly prefer to use wood they have personally chosen for its variety of merits, and that they have stored and cared for. One builder I know states on his website that he has a surcharge on customer supplied wood and will not warranty an instrument made from wood he did not personally choose and store. This does not seem unreasonable to me; these people are in business. I feel like if I want a custom instrument made for me by a particular builder, I want the full scope of their knowledge and skill. If you want a deal, go to a retailer and/or buy used! |
#20
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I would ask if the price could be lower. Maybe they would say yes. If I really wanted it and they said no, I would offer what they were asking. I think there is a lot to be said for having good feelings with the seller about the transaction for buying something that you love.
On the other hand, I bought a new D-28 back around 1970. I think I paid about $360 with a case for it and retail was about $500 at the time. |
#21
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Well, not that it's your business, but the last couple of bars I worked at, we had generous comp tabs. If I wasn't using my comp tab, my boss would get on me. And the last spot I was the bar manager, and the owner gave me generous latitude to encourage the continued patronage of regulars (and cultivate new ones), so long as the books met his expected numbers
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"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan) |
#22
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You were the one who said, “Nothing wrong with asking ‘what's the best you can do on this,’ but I guess I don't consider that haggling.” I personally wouldn’t ask (and I doubt many luthiers have any dinged left-handed guitars laying around that they’re looking to pass on at a good price). I consider Kevin Kopp to be one of the “bargain-priced” solo luthiers as it is (anything under $10k being a bargain for someone with KK’s bona fides in my book).
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#23
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I love to bargain on purchases. Once, years ago, I bought a factory second Martin, directly from the shop they had there. We bargained for a while and when it was over, the salesman said, "Boy I do like haggling. Most customers wont do it and it takes away some of the fun for me."
But when having a build done, that has not been my practice. First, I do enough research beforehand to be satisfied with the posted or initially quoted price. I can let them know in a subtle way that a lower price would make it easier for me to say 'Yes". Sometimes that results in a lower price, with no hard feelings. Often, it doesn't, but as we get into the planning and the building, very often I find something extra added for no extra cost or for a discount. In the end, I end up very satisfied with the price and with the guitar. If the guitar is already built, then I don't mind making offers or - sometimes - asking for something to be changed or added. When we are done, both of us are satisfied. And feel we are friends.
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The Bard Rocks Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia For Sale Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber '31 National Duolian + many other stringed instruments. |
#24
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Quote:
My point was based on the fact that the OP was a bit vague about what they had in mind. Was literally trying to dissuade them from trying haggle with a builder.
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"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan) |
#25
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I appreciate saving money as much as the next guy. Lord knows I very rarely pay retail for anything new but will look far and wide for used at a fraction of the cost of new.
That said, were I to contact a luthier about buying a custom guitar, I would not ask for a lower price. Not only does it come across as tacky but the luthier has no doubt set the price as competitively as possible. If I were buying one of his/her standard instruments that they normally build I would ask if that was their best price.
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It won’t always be like this. |
#26
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It has never occurred to me to initially offer full listed price for a guitar in a shop or from a private seller .
It has also never occurred to me to regard a builder's price as a starting point for negotiation. That is their price, and the only flexibility is in my decision to take it or leave it.
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Goodall, Martin, Wingert |
#27
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Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies. For clarification, I'm looking at a Kopp Bird built to Kevin's specs not mine, so don't consider it a custom build. If I was asking for custom, I feel the price is the price. He also sells the guitars through a shop (acoustic music works) so I would be purchasing through them. Knowing this and reading all the input, I feel I have a price in mind and will make an offer, see what they can do. Worse they can do is say no. Last thing I want to do though is leave a bad taste in the mouth of either the builder or the selling shop. Lots of good input, thank you all again. broy
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2018 Gibson Vintage J45 1986 Guild D25 1968 Gibson SG ----- For attempting to learn how to record:
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#28
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For me, the initial question immediately raises another one - why should the maker/dealer give you a discount?
My view on haggling on high quality goods that have a fixed price at one or all dealers, is that unless you're offering something in return - ie. buying more than one - I wouldn't expect a discount. I'm not even sure that in these circumstances (buying a single item) I'd even ask for a discount - in return for my lack of respect, I'd feel that the dealer/maker would lose just a little bit of respect for me. . |
#29
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This is always my response. You already know what I’m asking so what are you willing to pay?
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A couple of Halcyons and a Canadian made Larrivee "Wish I had more time to hear your reasons, but I have to go get a beer." 00-28 |
#30
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This is not a trick question, and any serious buyer will be prepared with a reasonable counter-offer. However, having bought a whole lot of guitars over the years, I really can't remember any dealer who has responded as such and often come back with a healthy discounted price...
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Emerald X20 Emerald X20-12 Fender Robert Cray Stratocaster Martin D18 Ambertone Martin 000-15sm Last edited by RP; 03-08-2024 at 07:51 AM. |