Gotoh Delta Tuners for Taylor 200 Series?

[drawshot1975]

Morning, all.

I've spent a bit of time doing homework on an upgrade for a new Taylor 224ce. I see that Gotoh has 510-Mini, 510, and 510 Delta tuners available.

My two questions are:

1. The Delta is the model with the 21:1 ratio, correct?
2. The 510 or 510 Delta are the correct size for the 200 Series models, yes? The 510-Minis are for smaller bodied guitars (like parlors, GS Mini, etc)???

I know I'll have to drill some pilot holes for the new set...which is fine...but I wanted to make sure I got the right size and model of Gotohs for my new toy.

Thanks much for any help y'all could provide.

DS

[Wade Hampton]

DS, currently I don’t own any Taylor guitars, much less the model you’re asking about. But there’s no need to worry about whether the size of the tuners are appropriate for the guitar body size. As it happens, many of my guitars, my Deering B6 guitar-banjo and two or three of my mountain dulcimers have Gotoh 510 minis.

I also have the full-size 21-1 gear ratio Gotoh 510Z gears you’re referring to as “Delta” gears on some instruments, and a set or two of the midsize 510 gears as well.

You might be interested to know that Gotoh itself does not label its 21-1 gear ratio 510’s as “Delta Series” tuners: that product line nomenclature comes from Gotoh’s main US distributor Allparts. In their own catalog designation, Gotoh denotes the 21-1 gear ratio 510’s by adding the letter “Z” to the end; hence, the specific 21-1 ratio product line you’re interested in are the 510Z’s.

Anyway, both the 18-1 and 21-1 ratio 510’s are absolutely superb tuners. The tuners with the finer gear ratio are great, but it doesn’t make them “better” than the other 510’s - in fact, if you change tunings a lot the 510Z’s are not as convenient: you have to turn the tuner buttons more times to reach the notes than with the 18-1’s.

Anyway, my recommendation is that you pick whichever 510’s you like. My own personal preference is for the mini’s: if you swap out the stock metal tuner buttons for lightweight aftermarket buttons made from ebony or ivoroid, you get the lightest tuners you can get while retaining the superior accuracy and overall functionality of the sealed gear tuners.

Open gear vintage-style tuners are lighter still, but I’ve owned all the major brands of those - Waverly, Grover Sta-Tites in both 14-1 and 18-1 versions, Gotohs AND Schallers - and NONE of them are quite as accurate as sealed gear Gotoh 510’s. On several occasions I’ve replaced open gear tuners - including open gear and Kluson-style Gotoh 510’s - with Gotoh sealed gear 510 minis simply because they work just a little bit better.

So my suggestion is that you you consider the Gotoh 510 minis and possibly put some aftermarket ebony or snakewood buttons on it.

The times I’ve put aftermarket buttons on Larrivee and Martin guitars I’ve used full-sized buttons because I think that size button looks better and is more proportional in relation to the size and shapes of those particular headstocks. But on my Martin D-18 and my Martin 00-21 I’ve got full-sized tortoiseshell plastic buttons on black Gotoh 510 minis. Visually that combination blends in nicely with the ebony fingerboard and bridge and the rich brown of the Ambertone tops I have on both guitars - it’s like this symphony of deep blacks and browns that the tortoise buttons on the black tuners literally top off.

Other guitar companies’ headstocks might look better with mini buttons, so you can put mini buttons on full-size tuners, too - nobody ever looks at the back of the headstock and yells:

“HEY!! Your aftermarket tuner buttons are a different size than the tuners you’ve mounted them on!! I’m personally outraged that you would even consider committing such a desecration!!!”

Trust me, no one will ever notice that’s been done, much less yell at you about it.

My point is that you can customize the tuner set you end up using to your own preferences.

So you can choose any combination of 510 tuner size and aftermarket button size, and if you decide that you want to put full-sized buttons on a set of minis, all you have to do is order a full-size tuner button screw set from Allparts. The longer screws cost virtually nothing, and all you have to do is swap each short tuner button screw with one of the longer screws as you take off each stock button and replace it with a full-size aftermarket button in succession as you do each one.

Putting mini buttons on full-sized tuners is just the opposite: to do that you get a set of the shorter screws from Allparts.

But that’s probably more information than you want or need right now. The simple answer is that you can use any size 510 set that you want on any size guitar. I like the 510 minis with hardwood or high quality plastic aftermarket buttons because they’re the lightest weight option while working superbly well.

But all of the sealed gear Gotoh 510’s are excellent tuners, no matter which size or button size you choose.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[jpmist]

Originally Posted by drawshot1975

1. The Delta is the model with the 21:1 ratio, correct?
2. The 510 or 510 Delta are the correct size for the 200 Series models, yes? The 510-Minis are for smaller bodied guitars (like parlors, GS Mini, etc)???

I know I'll have to drill some pilot holes for the new set...which is fine...but I wanted to make sure I got the right size and model of Gotohs for my new toy.

I'm on Gotoh's web site now and there's no "Delta" designation on any of them, so I think WH called it.

The web site has schematics for all their models so that might be worth a look if you're unsure about size -
https://g-gotoh.com/international/pr...-machine-heads

FWIW I "temporarily" put a set of Gotohs on one of my guitars 9 months ago that had too many holes drilled in already and didn't screw any of them in. That collar nut tightens down the tuner well enough so that in regular use it's not going to rotate and affect your tuning. So it's possible to omit the screw.

[btaylor]

You might check ebay for better pricing. I have seen some brand new sets cheaper on their than ordering from japarts before. They might be in stock also and not have to wait as long to get them. It's not always the case, but might be worth checking into. I would not get the minis for a full size guitar personally. I have the 510s and they're great, they function good, and look awesome. If I were to do it again, I might consider the Taylor Smoked Nickel finish for half the money. The Taylor tuners function just as well, IMHO, and the smoked nickel or maybe one of the other finishes may suit your likings aesthetically. Either way, the upgrade will be great and you'll be proud of it.

[drawshot1975]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

DS, currently I don’t own any Taylor guitars, much less the model you’re asking about. But there’s no need to worry about whether the size of the tuners are appropriate for the guitar body size. As it happens, many of my guitars, my Deering B6 guitar-banjo and two or three of my mountain dulcimers have Gotoh 510 minis.

I also have the full-size 21-1 gear ratio Gotoh 510Z gears you’re referring to as “Delta” gears on some instruments, and a set or two of the midsize 510 gears as well.

You might be interested to know that Gotoh itself does not label its 21-1 gear ratio 510’s as “Delta Series” tuners: that product line nomenclature comes from Gotoh’s main US distributor Allparts. In their own catalog designation, Gotoh denotes the 21-1 gear ratio 510’s by adding the letter “Z” to the end; hence, the specific 21-1 ratio product line you’re interested in are the 510Z’s.

Anyway, both the 18-1 and 21-1 ratio 510’s are absolutely superb tuners. The tuners with the finer gear ratio are great, but it doesn’t make them “better” than the other 510’s - in fact, if you change tunings a lot the 510Z’s are not as convenient: you have to turn the tuner buttons more times to reach the notes than with the 18-1’s.

Anyway, my recommendation is that you pick whichever 510’s you like. My own personal preference is for the mini’s: if you swap out the stock metal tuner buttons for lightweight aftermarket buttons made from ebony or ivoroid, you get the lightest tuners you can get while retaining the superior accuracy and overall functionality of the sealed gear tuners.

Open gear vintage-style tuners are lighter still, but I’ve owned all the major brands of those - Waverly, Grover Sta-Tites in both 14-1 and 18-1 versions, Gotohs AND Schallers - and NONE of them are quite as accurate as sealed gear Gotoh 510’s. On several occasions I’ve replaced open gear tuners - including open gear and Kluson-style Gotoh 510’s - with Gotoh sealed gear 510 minis simply because they work just a little bit better.

So my suggestion is that you you consider the Gotoh 510 minis and possibly put some aftermarket ebony or snakewood buttons on it.

The times I’ve put aftermarket buttons on Larrivee and Martin guitars I’ve used full-sized buttons because I think that size button looks better and is more proportional in relation to the size and shapes of those particular headstocks. But on my Martin D-18 and my Martin 00-21 I’ve got full-sized tortoiseshell plastic buttons on black Gotoh 510 minis. Visually that combination blends in nicely with the ebony fingerboard and bridge and the rich brown of the Ambertone tops I have on both guitars - it’s like this symphony of deep blacks and browns that the tortoise buttons on the black tuners literally top off.

Other guitar companies’ headstocks might look better with mini buttons, so you can put mini buttons on full-size tuners, too - nobody ever looks at the back of the headstock and yells:

“HEY!! Your aftermarket tuner buttons are a different size than the tuners you’ve mounted them on!! I’m personally outraged that you would even consider committing such a desecration!!!”

Trust me, no one will ever notice that’s been done, much less yell at you about it.

My point is that you can customize the tuner set you end up using to your own preferences.

So you can choose any combination of 510 tuner size and aftermarket button size, and if you decide that you want to put full-sized buttons on a set of minis, all you have to do is order a full-size tuner button screw set from Allparts. The longer screws cost virtually nothing, and all you have to do is swap each short tuner button screw with one of the longer screws as you take off each stock button and replace it with a full-size aftermarket button in succession as you do each one.

Putting mini buttons on full-sized tuners is just the opposite: to do that you get a set of the shorter screws from Allparts.

But that’s probably more information than you want or need right now. The simple answer is that you can use any size 510 set that you want on any size guitar. I like the 510 minis with hardwood or high quality plastic aftermarket buttons because they’re the lightest weight option while working superbly well.

But all of the sealed gear Gotoh 510’s are excellent tuners, no matter which size or button size you choose.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Wade,

That was FAR more info than I was expecting to receive...and I very much appreciate the time you took to write it.

Any time I can walk away from a conversation, better educated than when I entered into it, it's a good day.

I just pulled the trigger on a new set of 510Z tuners, and will have them in-hand next week.

Thanks again, sir!

DS

[Wade Hampton]

DS, believe me, the pleasure is all mine. I obviously enjoy exploring the technical aspects of good quality tuners, and to my thinking, the Gotoh 510’s are the best available factory-made tuners. You might get an infinitesimally more accurate tuner from one of the handful of individual makers who make custom tuning gears to order, but you’d pay at least four times as much for them, and possibly quite a bit more than that.

Anyway, I’m glad I was able to help.


whm