Live sound and mixing....need help!

[mandowilli]

Brick walls and cement floors equals natural room reverb. You may enjoy the sound of your voice with the speaker behind you with reverb effect added, but out in the room it is going to sound weird.

Also, with the speaker behind you there will be delay as the amplified sound exits the speaker and re-enters the mic.

IMHO placing the main speaker behind you is a wild card that just creates problems.

Get a small monitor and get the mains in front of the mic and guitar and your mic choice will no longer be such an issue.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by B. Adams

...the best mic in your inventory for this is going to be the SM57.

I concur. Mollie Tuttle uses an SM57 to train her ToneDexter!

[imsharris]

Okay, follow-up! The gig went amazingly well and I really ended up getting a great sound that many people commented on! I was set up with a brick wall behind me and to my left. cement floors throughout. Medium-size room with brick pillars throughout. High ceilings. Beautiful place, but a potential sound nightmare.

I ended up placing the QSC K10.2 about 6' high, to the left and slightly in front of me pointing out towards the room. When I started, I had my normal reverb on for vocals but the room had such a beautiful natural reverb I ended up just completely shutting the reverb down and letting the room do all the work. I sang through a Shure Beta 58 and ended up micing the guitar with a Shure SM86. I placed it pointing just behind my hand between the bridge and the sound hole. No problems at all with feedback or too boomy. I did dial out a lot of the bass and I believe mids at the mixer (I would have to go back and look) and then took out some of the lows on the vocals as well. I had a friend walk around the room before people got there and help me adjust levels and then he walked around as more people arrived to make sure nothing changed.

The room was REALLY loud with people talking, laughing, and having a good time, but I never had any problem with the mics picking up the noise or crowd noise drowning me out. At the end of the night the owner even commented about how good it sounded. He said when people usually came in there the sound was really dark and way too much reverb. I told him the reverb I had was nothing more than the beautiful sound of the room.

I have been looking at the ETL mics and they look really cool, but I am wondering as well about their sound in an extremely noisy environment like last night. In a listening room, studio, or small theater they are obviously perfect. I am still on the idea of a good large-diaphragm condenser for the acoustic. What are some other microphone ideas that you guys might have for situations like the one last night?

[foxyloxy]

You could use a soundhole pickup of reasonable quality - mine is a Fisher - or you could use a clip-on drum mic in the soundhole - I have a Ramsa s10 drum mic with a beltpack pre-amp and it sounds great. I had to bend the arm on the mic so it didn't foul the strings, and you would have to be happy with a wire going down the front of your guitar, so these solutions may not be to your taste. The reason I like them is that I like to move around which you can't do if your guitar sound depands on a fixed mic. position. I also use a headset radio mic so there's no mic stand between me and the audience - more intimate is what I like.

[imsharris]

I really don't have to worry about moving around a lot. Doing three-hour gigs, I always use a tall stool so when the mics are set I don't have to worry about them anymore. I almost approach it as "playing" the mic much like I use my vocal mic. I adjust my distance slightly from the mic for volume effect and feeling. I have a stool that swivels so I can adjust direction as well.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by imsharris

Okay, follow-up! The gig went amazingly well and I really ended up getting a great sound that many people commented on! I was set up with a brick wall behind me and to my left. cement floors throughout. Medium-size room with brick pillars throughout. High ceilings. Beautiful place, but a potential sound nightmare.

I ended up placing the QSC K10.2 about 6' high, to the left and slightly in front of me pointing out towards the room. When I started, I had my normal reverb on for vocals but the room had such a beautiful natural reverb I ended up just completely shutting the reverb down and letting the room do all the work. I sang through a Shure Beta 58 and ended up micing the guitar with a Shure SM86. I placed it pointing just behind my hand between the bridge and the sound hole. No problems at all with feedback or too boomy. I did dial out a lot of the bass and I believe mids at the mixer (I would have to go back and look) and then took out some of the lows on the vocals as well. I had a friend walk around the room before people got there and help me adjust levels and then he walked around as more people arrived to make sure nothing changed.

The room was REALLY loud with people talking, laughing, and having a good time, but I never had any problem with the mics picking up the noise or crowd noise drowning me out. At the end of the night the owner even commented about how good it sounded. He said when people usually came in there the sound was really dark and way too much reverb. I told him the reverb I had was nothing more than the beautiful sound of the room.

I have been looking at the ETL mics and they look really cool, but I am wondering as well about their sound in an extremely noisy environment like last night. In a listening room, studio, or small theater they are obviously perfect. I am still on the idea of a good large-diaphragm condenser for the acoustic. What are some other microphone ideas that you guys might have for situations like the one last night?

It sounds to me like you've found a good set up for gigs like this one. I wouldn't pour more money into it in the form of an expensive condenser because the sonic advantages, as I said earlier, won't be audible in that situation. Of course, if you have other uses for a nice mic--quiet, listening-room or small theater gigs, recording, etc.--that's a different story.

Louis

[imsharris]

The setup did work really well, and hopefully will help some other people looking for the same results I got. The only reason I am looking for something else, is just because I enjoy options. Each year I get a little boost to the old music fund and I try to get myself something I normally wouldn't. So, this year I am leaning towards gear for live solo gigs. I would like to find a mic I can use for recording as well as live.

[Oregon Donor]

Originally Posted by imsharris

I have been looking at the ETL mics and they look really cool, but I am wondering as well about their sound in an extremely noisy environment like last night. In a listening room, studio, or small theater they are obviously perfect. I am still on the idea of a good large-diaphragm condenser for the acoustic. What are some other microphone ideas that you guys might have for situations like the one last night?

I recently bought an Edwina and learned the hard way that it doesn't work in the glass windows/concrete wall+floor settings mentioned upthread. While the feedback was mostly manageable, it just absorbed too much of the room's natural reverb of this small taproom in a way that wasn't pleasing. I switched to a Heil PR22 through a Grace Felix and got through it just fine. With that said, I did use it the following day in a quieter winery setting and it was awesome. So I think as Louis said, if you go that route and are just mindful/prudent about the room and bring your 'fallback', it's a good way to learn. I'm trying to approach it as a learning experience as this is my first rodeo with owning a condenser.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Though I have no real experience with it, another consideration would be to go with an Ear Trumpet mic that picks up your voice AND guitar. That would likely simplify things a bit for you. I've seen The Milk Carton Kids live several times and they are both singing and playing directly into a single Ear Trumpet mic. They are expensive mics but I've considered going this route a couple times but have yet to give it a go. I'd love to hear from any others with experience micing this way for performance from those that have.

Most of the performers who play my music series use my mikes but of those who don't, the majority use Ear Trumpets. They sound good, feedback is not a problem here, and they get consistent compliments.

[imsharris]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

Most of the performers who play my music series use my mikes but of those who don't, the majority use Ear Trumpets.

Hey Bard, what mics do you use and what is your setup for a solo acoustic performer?