How rare is great Englemann?

[fregly]

A builder I am working with went wood shopping recently and posted about going through 100 sets of Englemann to come up with just two great ones. Is this a thing with Engleman, or is there that much weeding required generally.

[Tim McKnight]

That's fairly common with all tone woods. I buy my the majority of my tops in bulk from mills or sawyers, cherry pick the ones that meets my criteria and return the rest on my nickle. Sometimes I am fortunate enough to visit a wood vendor at a show or their store front.

[fregly]

Tim, do you mean sound plus cosmetic consideration? I wonder how many excellent tops have to be rejected because of quirky looks clients and the market generally will not accept.

[SingingSparrow]

i would be interested in that ^^ about whether grading wood is about sound or aesthetic or both

[Guitars44me]

Dana Bourgeois has said something like you can have great sound, looks, and (low) price. Pick any two you want….

Seems about right. He also said for his personal guitars, he goes with SOUND.

cheers

Paul

[usb_chord]

Originally Posted by fregly

A builder I am working with went wood shopping recently and posted about going through 100 sets of Englemann to come up with just two great ones. Is this a thing with Engleman, or is there that much weeding required generally.

Not necessarily, but if you're looking for specific qualities not commonly found in that tonewood, then yes!

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by fregly

Tim, do you mean sound plus cosmetic consideration? I wonder how many excellent tops have to be rejected because of quirky looks clients and the market generally will not accept.

Sound is my #1 grading criteria closely followed by stiffness to weight ratio, grain count, consistency in spacing, color and lack of runout. When sifting through a stack of tops, I quickly sort them first by stiffness to weight by fanning then. Then that stack is graded visually for color and grain count, then runout and lastly for tap tone. If it doesn’t pass all the metrics then it’s rejected.

Originally Posted by SingingSparrow

i would be interested in that ^^ about whether grading wood is about sound or aesthetic or both

When one purchases any top from an online wood vendor they are buying a top based on 100% cosmetic grading which has zero to do with its tonal characteristics or potential. That is why I don’t buy wood that I can’t see, feel, flex or hear, in person.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Sound is my #1 grading criteria closely followed by stiffness to weight ratio, grain count, consistency in spacing, color and lack of runout. When sifting through a stack of tops, I quickly sort them first by stiffness to weight by fanning then. Then that stack is graded visually for color and grain count, then runout and lastly for tap tone. If it doesn’t pass all the metrics then it’s rejected.




When one purchases any top from an online wood vendor they are buying a top based on 100% cosmetic grading which has zero to do with its tonal characteristics or potential. That is why I don’t buy wood that I can’t see, feel, flex or hear, in person.

Fantastic Answers Tim!

[Simon Fay]

The hardest thing about finding good Engelmann for me is avoiding runout. Out of a stack of 50 AAA Engelmann tops, I might find one or two that don't have noticeable runout.

[M Sarad]

Richard Hoover tells a great story of shopping for European Spruce. Evidently the seller figured the American shopper didn't know what he was doing. He mixed his best wood with all the rest, figuring it wouldn't sell.
By the end of the afternoon, Richard had chosen only the very best, shocking the seller completely.

[J Patrick]

…that may be the main reason it isn’t more popular….I’ve had 4 guitars with Englemann tops….2 Taylor’s…an early 510 and a GS mini HV….a Huss&Dalton CM and a Kopp RJ prototype that I currently own and is my favorite guitar of all time….all were great sounding guitars…the Kopp is sensational for my tastes….none of the tops were particularly special cosmetically….I heard somewhere that Richard Hoover avoids it….I’ve only seen a couple of Cruzes with Englemann tops…

[j. Kinnaird]

I recently discovered Kootenay spruce peddlers. They specialize in Engelmann spruce. It's all they sell. I bought a batch of master grade tops at a reasonable price. They are some of the best tops I've found both acoustically and aesthetically. No run out. Just great. I'd put the up against " moos spruce" any day and bet on their superiority

[Jwills57]

In my humble opinion Engelmann spruce gets a bad rap. I have several guitars made with Engelmann and they are all amazing instruments. I think good Engelmann is just about as close to the "mystical" qualities of good German spruce as any American tonewood. It seems to produce a crisp, resonant, and for lack of a better term "complex" response. Somehow Engelmann seems to have gotten associated more with classical guitars than with steel string guitars, but, just from my experience, this is not warranted at all.

[FingahPickah]

I have a custom built 12 fret slope shoulder dread - Engelmann w/Adi braces /Black Walnut b&s that sounds amazing - fingah (errr.. ) fingerstyle clarity, balance & projection - and a big bluegrass voice - volume goes to eleven.

Holds its' own no problem with my Sitka and Adi tops.

[Bruce Sexauer]

The problem with Engelmann, if it is a problem as it could be an asset, it that in my experience it is more highly variable than any other spruce. Some material I've had is quite soft, almost punky, while other examples are nearly as hard and stiff as any other high quality spruce. The best of it is more like EuroSpruce than Sitka or American Red (adi). The softer material can sound very pleasant, but tends to lack sparkle. It can make an excellent fiddle, for those who like a darker sound. I also like it for arch top guitars.