Neck relief when levelling frets?

[dnf777]

Seems like I should know this, but all my fretwork has been on my new builds with unattached, no-tension, flat (no relief) necks.

But when leveling frets on an old guitar, do you level them as the neck is played (of course, unstrung, so maybe less relief than when strung) or do you try to have it straight? Iknow there are tensioning jigs and plek machines…but how do you approack an old fashioned fret job?

[mirwa]

You make the neck straight with no strings on, you level the frets out and recrown them, if the neck twists or humps when restringing then you have a seperate issue.

In the ideal world, putting strings on a freshly flattened and recrowned fretboard will result in an ideal setup, maybe tweak relief if required.

Plek simply shows any minor underlying issues by exaggerating the fret profile to board length aspect.

Steve

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by mirwa

You make the neck straight with no strings on, you level the frets out and recrown them, if the neck twists or humps when restringing then you have a seperate issue.

In the ideal world, putting strings on a freshly flattened and recrowned fretboard will result in an ideal setup, maybe tweak relief if required.

Plek simply shows any minor underlying issues by exaggerating the fret profile to board length aspect.

Steve

Thats how Ive done it…without really thinking about it. But then I had to ask what others do. More recently, out of curiosity, I measured the relief on a tele with light bullets strung up, then checked it with the strings off. Could not detect a difference with a depth micrometer! That surprised me. I expected 1-3/1000 maybe? But nada. Makes me wonder about the need for those neck jigs that simulate tension?

[mirwa]

The neck jigs that simulate tension are a great tool, I have three in my shop, however they are really for fixing problems not really IMO needed for working functional guitars.

I get guitars in under warranty that have twisted necks, grain not the best, etc, this is what I use the jigs for

Steve

[srick]

Dave - rank amateur here… I just did my first refret, a 1971 Yamaha FG140. I wondered about the same question and spent a lot of time reading up and also listening to the luthiers on ianhatesguitars.com. These luthiers love their neck jigs, but as mirwa said, they generally only use them on their more challenging, high end cases. And they’ll charge extra for the set up time.

The biggest issues on this guitar were the flattened frets, and borderline need for a neck reset. Once I pulled the frets, the neck was in pretty good shape. I did the final leveling, under tension, with an under string levelling beam (Stewmac of course). I learned a tremendous amount from just staring at the guitar, measuring, tweaking, and figuring out what was going on.

Complicating the matter was a neck that was extremely sensitive to truss rod adjustments. It took a lot of time to figure out what was causing what. In the end, I now think I can size up a guitar much better than ever before. In fact, if I was going used guitar shopping, I would bring along an 18 inch straight edge and string action ruler.

I’m not ready to do my first neck reset, so in lieu of that, I shaved the saddle. The result is ‘pretty good.’ It won’t be the best guitar for playing fingerstyle at the 10th fret, but it is playable. It’s been a great way to learn. Maybe next year I’ll contemplate learning how to reset a neck .

Best,

Rick

[redir]

Dressing and recrowning is different then refretting. When refretting you have the luxury of leveling the fredboard as needed too.

If I am doing a fret dressing then I try to get the FB dead level. If I can then I will use my leveling beam to dress the frets. If I cannot then I will use a short flat file and work the length of the FB because if you cannot get a twist or the relief out then with the leveling beam you will span the middle frets lowering the first and last too much.

[dnf777]

Srick,
I appreciate your comments and perspective. Ive had a few of those moments, when things all the sudden make sense and become clear. For me, removing a tele neck years ago made me realize what a truss rod does….and more importantly…does NOT do. I thought to myself, imagine trying to bend a baseball bat. Thats essentially what we ask that little metal rod to do! It also became more clear that I was not affecting saddle height or the neck pocket. Seems obvious, but we hear comments to the contrary all the time.

Thanks for all the comments. They have all helped.