Explain Why CF Guitars Don't Need a Truss Rod

[denny1948golf]

I understand CF guitars are extremely stable and there is no need for neck adjustments going from winter to summer, but what about setting neck relief for individual need? How does different string gauge/tension affect CF necks? I like very low action for playability with the arthritis I have. Am I going to be ok with a CF guitar?

[rwskaggs]

Originally Posted by denny1948golf

I understand CF guitars are extremely stable and there is no need for neck adjustments going from winter to summer, but what about setting neck relief for individual need? How does different string gauge/tension affect CF necks? I like very low action for playability with the arthritis I have. Am I going to be ok with a CF guitar?

I read all the manufacturers' claims regarding truss rods and deliberately chose a Rainsong with an N2 neck BECAUSE it has one! I also like low actions and I've achieved it with my H DR-1100 N2. Not saying it won't work on the others, but I like to be able to dial it in.....

[SteelPastor]

.

RW...

In your opinion, how does the action on your N2 neck compare with other high end guitars? With the ability to "dial it in" as you mention, I would like your take on this.

I understand that neck profile is an issue of much debate, however that is not what I am looking for your insight on. (For the record, I love Taylor necks and Les Paul 60's necks.)

Is the action on your carbon fiber able to be even lighter than most wood guitars? As another who is a low action devotee, I am eager to hear your insights... as well as any others who would step in.

Thank you.

[Kindness]

I also believe that a CF guitar and a Nylon stringed guitar should have truss rods. What sold me? Getting the perfect set ups for my guitars. When you find someone who REALLY knows what they are doing with a set up, a guitar plays like butter. A set up would not be complete without tweeking the truss rod.

[leeasam]

As a former owner of a CA GX performer they had no truss rod. I finally had enough with it and the truss rod issue was one of the reasons. I wanted the action lower and when I tried to get the action down to even what is factory specs on many or Taylor specs( which is what I ws used to) the guitar had fret buzz on the lower frets. Well to compensate for that one adds just a tiny bit of relief. Well you can not do that with no truss rod. Neck was just too straight. I tried mediums on it as they do not oscillate as much as lights that it came with so I could run lower action. Well the mediums pulled on the neck and added way to much relief where it had higher action yet contrary to the ficticious claim that it would not change with string gauge.

Well my 2010 Taylor 816ce right off the wall w/mediums plays so much nicer and easier than the GX did with lights. I will not buy another one with out the ability to tweek it for taste.

I have played the Rainsong N2 necks and really like them. a bit deeper but fit my hands just fine.

[Ray B]

Everyone has their own experiences ...

I have a "pre-Peavy" CA OX Raw (no truss rod) and had it set up by the tech at Elderly Instruments a couple of years ago: It is, without doubt, the best playing guitar I own. The RainSong H-DR1100N2 (set up at MacNichol) has great action, as does my Martin D-35 (set up up at Elderly) and both have truss rods: They both are a pleasure to play, but still don't "quite" play as well as the OX.

Just my $0.02

Ray

[kramster]

So just get one with a truss rod. I have some with and without.. never adjusted the ones with... just sayin

[rwskaggs]

Originally Posted by SteelPastor

.

RW...

In your opinion, how does the action on your N2 neck compare with other high end guitars? With the ability to "dial it in" as you mention, I would like your take on this.

I understand that neck profile is an issue of much debate, however that is not what I am looking for your insight on. (For the record, I love Taylor necks and Les Paul 60's necks.)

Is the action on your carbon fiber able to be even lighter than most wood guitars? As another who is a low action devotee, I am eager to hear your insights... as well as any others who would step in.

Thank you.

You can see by my signature that I love Larrivees - all mine are setup around .085" on low E and .065" on high E with between .006-.010" relief. When the Rainsong is set there, I can almost eliminate that much relief and don't have to think about humidity-related buzzing cropping up. It's set low and it stays there. It really depends a lot on the string set I'm using - right now I'm hooked on PB bluegrass strings that have lighter E & B strings along with medium thickness wound ones. If I put a lighter set on, (12 - 53s for example), I'd need to increase the relief a bit to compensate for the wider arc of vibration they have under my hands. I've got some titanium Rohrbacher lights on my 00-03 all mahogany that would probably slap frets a bit with the current Rainsong setup...but they would sound wonderful after dialing them in.

The Rainsong is the guitar I take when I go to jams, open mikes and church events b/c I don't have to fuss with retuning when temp/humidity changes. The Larrivees tend to stay in my humidifed home office where I thoroughly enjoy the diverse tones of each of them. The LS-03 (Forum III) is REALLY nice for fingerstyle, but the Rainsong is just as easy on my hands and fingers, and it's about as carefree as can be.

Hope this helps a bit - others may have differing experiences, but I think the truss rod allows more experimentation with strings and playing styles....

[denny1948golf]

A good setup by a very competent luthier is an absolute necessity with every guitar I own. I've been lucky to find one of the best luthier's here in South West Florida. It's very rare to find a guitar that doesn't need fret leveling and dressing when achieving very low action. Between the nut, saddle, fret leveling and truss rod adjustment, I believe any guitar can be set up very low without fret buzz or rattles. Once a guitar is properly set up using the above criteria, changing string gauge/tension is easily achieved with a simple truss rod adjustment. This is the part of not having a truss rod that bothers me. Finding the best strings and gauge for each guitar can take time and trying various string sets. After reading Leeasam's post, it's obvious using heavier or lighter gauge strings will change the bow in the neck. I doubt I'd buy a CF without a truss rod.

[pandaroo]

The neck of CF guitars are very playable. Rainsongs with N2 neck have truss rods so lots of flexibility in action adjustments.

[ac]

I have an Emerald X7 without a truss rod, 5.5/64 & 4/64, relief is 0.004 and the relief measured with lights or mediums is the same. Super playability.

I have an Emerald X7-OS with a truss rod, set to 5/64 & 4/64. Don't know the relief but it's wonderful to play.

Emerald has a long list of options (email him) for all their guitars and Alistair is open to ideas you might have. You can add a truss rod to any model and he will adjust the build for it. Options on electronics, tuners, even neck widths on special request. These are essentially custom guitars at wonderful prices.

That said, like Kramster, I've had no need to touch the truss rod on the X7-OS--but maybe someday I'll experiment more with strings and need to adjust. The setup came directly from Alistair (I explained in advance the action I was looking for) and it's great.

[Doubleneck]

We have the same likes when it comes to guitars and action. I have to have as low of action as I can get and I prefer Taylor type thin necks. I don't disagree that a trust rod is good to have in a carbon guitar. If you can get the neck you want and it has a truss rod that is the best setup. The trouble with Rainsong is that to get a truss rod you have to have the N2 neck and it is not a Taylor type neck. I have one on my Rainsong OM and I could use the truss rod to dial a low action but I think the neck is too thick for me. Certainly nice and playable but not my preference. My best player is my CA Legacy no truss rod but the relief on my guitar is perfect with light gauge strings. 5/64 low E 3.5 on high E. Neck is thin like a Taylor, but wider as you got up neck. Reality I like not having a rod in the CA cause its perfect and I don't ever want to screw with it. It will not change which is cool. Bottom line a trust rod is nice but not necessary.

[mchalebk]

Wood guitars need truss rods because they change over time and with varying environmental conditions. CF guitars don't need them because they don't change.

A lot of people will argue that they need a truss rod to set their action for their style of playing. However, truss rods aren't really supposed to be used to adjust action, only relief. Once relief is set properly, the nut and saddle are all that need to be adjusted to get the desired action.

I think the bottom line is that any guitar can benefit from having a truss rod. However, most guitarists are fine with an average relief setting and won't ever need to change it, so they can get away without a truss rod in a CF guitar due to the unique characteristics of composite construction.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

Wood guitars need truss rods because they change over time and with varying environmental conditions. CF guitars don't need them because they don't change.

A lot of people will argue that they need a truss rod to set their action for their style of playing. However, truss rods aren't really supposed to be used to adjust action, only relief. Once relief is set properly, the nut and saddle are all that need to be adjusted to get the desired action.

I think the bottom line is that any guitar can benefit from having a truss rod. However, most guitarists are fine with an average relief setting and won't ever need to change it, so they can get away without a truss rod in a CF guitar due ot the unique characteristics of composite construction.

This is the clearest, most straightforward information I have yet seen regarding a truss rod and CF guitars. Well done - even I could understand this one.

Tony

[kramster]

+1 on what Tony said. Well "put across".