The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-26-2021, 10:07 AM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lower Slower Delaware
Posts: 2,776
Default Recommendation For Acoustic Guitar PUPS in Full Band Setting?

After many years I’m getting back onstage with a full “rock” band (2 electric guitarists, bass & drums). Other than an occasional “primary” guitar role (e.g., intro to Behind Blue Eyes), I’ll be playing mostly rhythm acoustic guitar (and lead vocals). I’m looking to set-up one of my acoustics with a pickup system. I haven’t decided yet which guitar yet, but it will be a spruce-topped 00 or 000. My main goals are being present in the mix and avoiding feedback. In this setting getting a “perfect/pure” acoustic tone is kinda secondary to these other two needs IMO. Obviously, I want it to sound good but we're not talking about a need for James Taylor tone here. I’ll be running the guitar into a Genzler Array Pro, which in medium/large venues will be go direct (or mic’ed) into the PA; so the soundman will have some control on the tone.

Given all of the above, what PUPS would you recommend? My thinking is a transducer type with onboard volume (and tone?) control like a K&K Pure (maybe with the Ultra Pure Pre-amp?). I'm guessing internal mic systems like Anthem or Lyric are more prone to feedback. I want to avoid an under saddle transducer but I’m open to using a soundhole cover/feedback buster as well. THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-26-2021, 10:25 AM
Crowder Crowder is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 73
Default

I just posted in another thread that my old bandmate used an Epiphone SST to front our rock band and it worked great IMO. Never experienced any feedback and I think the whole guitar was probably less expensive than a good pickup and preamp combo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MabWpwvzxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcydearHKro
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-26-2021, 11:41 AM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lower Slower Delaware
Posts: 2,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowder View Post
I just posted in another thread that my old bandmate used an Epiphone SST to front our rock band and it worked great IMO. Never experienced any feedback and I think the whole guitar was probably less expensive than a good pickup and preamp combo.
Thx. I've considered an option like this. I'm torn between using one of a few really nice guitars I already have (with necks I'm comfortable with) vs. getting something I won't be concerned with getting the nicks and bruises that can happen playing out. I'm at a stage where I'm okay having one of the "herd" acquire some battle scars as part of its "historical record". They're made to be used! LOL

Last edited by gmel555; 10-26-2021 at 11:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-26-2021, 02:18 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,888
Default

When I had my Guild 12-string setup for playing with an electric band a few years back, my luthier recommended an under-saddle pickup vs. a soundboard transducer. I think better feedback rejection was part of that.

Volume adjustments can be handled with a volume pedal.

The few times I've used the Guild that way it worked for me.

As you say, pristine best possible tone wasn't my goal in that use either, though I suppose one could use an Aura, Tonedexter, etc and try to tweak for that if one was after it.
__________________
-----------------------------------
Creator of The Parlando Project

Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-26-2021, 04:16 PM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lower Slower Delaware
Posts: 2,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
When I had my Guild 12-string setup for playing with an electric band a few years back, my luthier recommended an under-saddle pickup vs. a soundboard transducer. I think better feedback rejection was part of that.
I'm not surprised to hear that. I have one dread with LRBaggs UST (and vol wheel). I'd used it but I want a smaller guitar on stage and am now preferring shorter scales <25.0" as well. I mentioned not wanting a UST in my OP only because I didn't want to "futz" with the saddles on any of my current guitars. If I end up getting another guitar just for this purpose I wouldn't reject one with a UST if it played well and felt good. Thx
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-27-2021, 05:45 AM
Methos1979's Avatar
Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seacoast, NH
Posts: 8,070
Default

SBT pickups in acoustic guitars with loud rock bands = feedback. For best feedback rejection just slap a magnetic sound hole pickup in your favorite guitar. You can always try a sound hole plug if you go the SBT route but if you play loud and have monitors you'll be fighting to be heard in the mix without getting feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2021, 05:55 AM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 768
Default

I have SBTs in my guitars and love them, but I still use a magnetic soundhole pickup (Sunrise, Mimesis Kudos) when playing in a full band with electric guitars ,drums ...
__________________
Blazer & Henkes, vintage Martins & Gibsons, Altman, Martin 00016 Streetmaster
mandolin family, Weissenborn, dobro, lap steel, pedal steel, 5-string banjo
live gear: Dazzo, Schatten, K&K, Mimesis Kudos, Schoeps CMC6MK4, DPA4061, Neumann KM85, Grace Felix 2, SunnAudio, ToneDexter, RedEye

https://www.youtube.com/@roberthasleder1526
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-27-2021, 07:06 AM
jricc jricc is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 4,983
Default

I agree with Methos79 and guitarman68 in getting a soundhole mag, preferably with adjustable polepieces. I use an LR Baggs M1a and while it's not perfectly acoustic, it's good sounding and can turn it up without feedback.
__________________
-Joe

Martin 000-1
Rainsong CH-OM
Martin SC10e sapele


My Band's Spotify page https://open.spotify.com/artist/2KKD...SVeZXf046SaPoQ

Last edited by jricc; 10-27-2021 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-27-2021, 07:53 AM
noledog's Avatar
noledog noledog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,530
Default

Although mostly a soloist in my career, I had a period of fronting a band and I used a Guild D25 with a passive sound hole mag... zero feedback, good tone.
I still use a mag for specific shows currently and my two recommendations would be a Baggs M1, or my current favorite; DeArmond Tone Boss.
The Tone Boss is lighter in weight and has a volume wheel. Both are passive and sound wonderful; zero feedback.
__________________
NOLE TUNES & Coastal Acoustic Music one love jam!
Martin D18 & 3 lil' birdz; Takamine KC70, P3NC x 2
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-27-2021, 09:08 AM
SalFromChatham's Avatar
SalFromChatham SalFromChatham is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,726
Default

Have fun!

While I love my K&Ks in the two guitars that have them, an external preamp on the floor is usually needed to take off a little low and mid end. Additionally a soundhole plug is imperative.

While USTs dont get a lot of love for their propensity to be "quacky", I think the Baggs Element VTC is terrific - and it really cuts through. I also agree with noledog and really like the Baggs M1A as well - but still think the Element is better for your needs. If you are going to have a floor preamp anyways, the passive soundholes are great too. I loved my dearmond and my m1 (both after listening to noledog's advice).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2021, 09:53 AM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lower Slower Delaware
Posts: 2,776
Default

Thanks to all for the informative responses! The "trend" in the comments above seems to lean toward mag. soundhole pup. That would have the added benefit of being the least invasive on the guitar while I try it out (I've decided to use one of the current herd). This morning I spoke with a long-time guitarist friend who's been playing part-time consistently in full bands for the last 40 years and has seen a lot of rigs. He also thought soundhole mag was the best route and suggested trying out the DiMarzio Black Angel or M1A. I like that I can try it first without any mods and get an initial impression. I've got a couple months of rehearsals to experiment with on-stage control (pre-amp, volume pedal, etc.) with some equipment I already have or can borrow. I'll start with the 10' quick mount cable just taped over the guard, but If I'm liking it after a few gigs I'll run it through the strap button. I think I'm dangerously close to a good plan. I've got a Larrivee dread with a Baggs UST that works well, but again, I'm hoping to use a smaller guitar w slightly shorter scale for this. Thanks again!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2021, 10:09 AM
Goat Mick Goat Mick is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bristol, TN
Posts: 6,573
Default

I'm moving back to having Baggs M1 passive pickups in all my gigging guitars. They just sound good and are very dependable. Probably not the most genuine acoustic sounding pickup you can have, but it does give a great amplified acoustic tone, doesn't feed back and doesn't require batteries. And I've never had a situation where it didn't have a strong enough signal. SBT pickups are bad to feedback and squeal at higher volumes and they also transmit a loud "pop" anytime your hand hits the bridge or soundboard while playing. Not very noticeable at low to medium volumes but very noticeable and distracting at higher volumes like you would have with a band.
__________________
'59 Gibson J-45 "Spot"
'21 Gibson LG-2 - 50's Reissue
'94 Taylor 710
'18 Martin 000-17E "Willie"
‘23 Taylor AD12e-SB
'22 Taylor GTe Blacktop
'15 Martin 000X1AE

https://pandora.app.link/ysqc6ey22hb

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-28-2021, 05:10 AM
Jinder Jinder is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 330
Default

I increasingly find SBTs unsuited to my playing style. I don’t like the exaggerated dynamics (that pop/boom thing when the heel of your hand hits the bridge), the poor feedback resistance and the congested mids which are hard to dial out.

They’re also poorly suited to band work as has been pointed out, due to the poor capacity for gain before feedback.

I use a Sunrise soundhole pickup for almost everything, and love them. I like them so much I have three…They work very well both solo and in a band setting, and are remarkably impervious to feedback. I run mine through a Boss AD10 preamp which is a perfect fit. Another great option is the Seymour Duncan MagMic, which can be used with the internal condenser mic blended in for solo work and turned off for full band work as required. I have had one in my Dove for a long time and am extremely happy with it.
__________________
'67 Gibson J45 (K&K)
‘81 Eko Ranger IV (weird factory Electra pickup)
'95 Gibson Dove (MagMic)
‘97 Martin D18GE (Sunrise)
‘01 Takamine EAN46C (Palathetic and CT4B)
'02 Takamine EAN20C (Palathetic and CT4BII)
'15 Gibson SJ200 Standard (Sunrise)
‘19 Vintage Paul Brett Viator VC Classical
‘20 Sigma CF-100 copy (Sunrise)

Capos by G7th, amplification by AER.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-29-2021, 04:21 PM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lower Slower Delaware
Posts: 2,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinder View Post
..............I use a Sunrise soundhole pickup for almost everything, and love them. I like them so much I have three…They work very well both solo and in a band setting, and are remarkably impervious to feedback. I run mine through a Boss AD10 preamp which is a perfect fit. Another great option is the Seymour Duncan MagMic, which can be used with the internal condenser mic blended in for solo work and turned off for full band work as required. I have had one in my Dove for a long time and am extremely happy with it.
That's very useful info. Thank you for posting....gmel555
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-29-2021, 04:42 PM
fwphoto fwphoto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 375
Default Ultra Tonic

Been a fan of K&K pickups for a long time but have used soundhole covers to eliminate feedback in loud band settings. I recently converted one to a James May Ultra Tonic & have been super impressed with the sound quality of the K&K without any feedback whatever.

http://jamesmayengineering.com

I will convert my other guitar with a K&K to the Ultra Tonic & will go full Ultra Tonic on a third that currently has no pickup.

No connection to James May but think the Ultra Tonic solves the major problem with the K&K style pickups, feedback. Did I mention it sounds great?

Frank
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=