Fingerstyle Guitar for older player? (BABYBOOMER ALERT)

[Boozehound]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

….setup…setup….setup….

…once you find a quality guitar that has a body size and neck profile you like…the setup of the guitar is the way to realize ultimate playing comfort……in my experience….it’s far more important than the specific make and model of guitar….

This is worth emphasizing. I don't think I've ever come across a guitar, including boutique builds, that couldn't benefit from some amount of setup work - particularly lowering the nut slot height. A lot is made of the action at the 12th fret, but the action at the nut is even more important IMHO in making a guitar easy to play.

[SRL]

Originally Posted by jpmist

That's a notion I kick around from time to time, but when I tried it I didn't like the change in tone due to the reduced string tension. Is there any rule of thumb as to how heavier a string set to change to?

I've tried 2nd fret with medium strings and it works but with light strings it's way too loose and buzzy. First fret with light strings works okay but it's definitely a lot lower tension. Probably would be too buzzy with extra light strings but it depends on the strings and action height.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Other posts have already mentioned most of what I might recommend. What I can still add: buy low tension strings, like round cores (i like the DR strings that are wrapped around round cores), or Straight Up Strings, or Santa Cruz Parabolic. I use Straight Up Strings (their Medium, .12 - .53, or their Heavy gauges) on nearly all my long scale guitars, and that makes them feel like hex core strings .12-.53 on my short scale guitar. Lighter gauges than that feels a bit too floppy for me, though i may move to lighter gauges if something makes my hands less comfortable.

DR Sunbeam and other strings wound on a round core are not low tension. There is a reason Newtone distinguishes between their Master Class and Heritage strings both of which are wound on round cores. One is low tension and the other is not. But as I said, they do feel more flexible.

I have tried the Straight Up Strings on my Fairbanks Smeck while my wife uses the Santa Cruz Strings on her 1960 Gibson J200. She is more of a fan of them than I am though. So maybe they are a better fit with long scale guitars. So to give the Straight Up Strings a fair tryout I plan to string my longer scale NYC-made Epiphone flattop with them.

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by kmckenna45

Need some help here, from other Baby-Boomers. I have to believe others are having the same issues.

I've reached the 3rd period of the "hockey-game-of-life" (60yrs), and I still love playing, but I need help[ to find a guitar that easier to play (finger style).

I'm not sure what will help - I already massage my forearm every night.

I'd like to find an acoustic that will give me the least strain/pain. My guess is that would look like the below - but (admittingly) I could be wrong about the desired result from each of these - I'd appreciate input on that too:

Shorter Scale (less reaching)
12 frets (I have big hands)
OM/OOO or OO body size (more comfortable to hold)

Does a 12 fret/short scale guitar have less string tension, or more - than a long scale? String tension is important, but I currently tune down one or two steps to reduce the tension.

What are your thoughts on the above features making life easier on my "guitar-arm"? And what acoustics (around $2500 used) fall into this list?

Thanks.

Larrivee 00 12fret fits the bill as well as anything you’ll find. I have quite a few guitars and my two Larrivee 00 get the majority of play time for the reasons you listed. The string spacing at the bridge is perfect for fingerstyle play. Not to mention the sound is fantastic.
I’m 70 years old so I’m qualified to understand what your looking for.

Blues.

[Daddyo]

Taylor 312CE 12 Fret

[MinTac]

Originally Posted by Daddyo

Taylor 312CE 12 Fret

Couldn't agree more, my aging hands and ears love this guitar.

[RLetson]

Playing discomfort can come in almost as many flavors as there are players and have as many causes. The original post mentions the "guitar arm" and the need to massage the forearm--but doesn't specify which arm, and that would make a difference in determining which of the many variables to address.

Forearm discomfort sounds like a muscle-condition or perhaps a posture issue. Does the shoulder also hurt or get tired? That's posture, perhaps in conjunction with the size of the instrument. If it's just the forearm, that sounds like muscle fatigue.

Then there's the matter of straining. A viola player once told me that his teacher encouraged him to only apply enough left-hand pressure to sound the note clearly: "Don't strangle the neck." He found it reduced fatigue and improved his playing as well.

For older players, hand discomfort is most often the result of arthritis--I started to have left-hand discomfort after 72 or so (thumb and forefinger--the clamping/flexing actions can hurt). That's addressed by finding instruments whose neck geometry minimizes stress on those joints and muscles, and that means not only fretboard width but radius and profile (flat wide fingerboard + shallow profile=pain).

The first--and most easily addressed--items on the checklist would be posture, guitar setup, and neck geometry. On a given guitar, much left-hand comfort is going to be governed by a combination of setup and string tension--when my left hand is being cranky, I reach for a guitar optimized for silk & bronze lights. It happens to have a 1-7/8" flat fingerboard but a deep enough neck profile that my fingers are not oveflexed. A 1-3/4" radiused fingerboard with ordinary lights is also comfortable. As for setup: a stiff-feeling guitar got less stiff-feeling after a tweaking of the nut slots to drop the action at the first fret. So setup and string gauge interact strongly. For those with shoulder/arm/wrist issues, posture and instrument size also matter. (I often hear from players who move from dreads and jumbos to 000 or smaller guitars to take the stress off shoulders.)

FWIW, I'm 76, wear large/extra-large gloves, have played for more than 60 years, mostly fingerstyle, and until about three years ago was able to adapt to a wide variety of guitar sizes, designs, and neck geometries, from classical to dreadnaught to parlor to archtop acoustic, without much fuss, let alone pain. I would routinely play hour- or even two-hour sets without breaks. (One of my partners was a real iron man.) My current problems are entirely of the arthritis/wear-and-tear/bad-habits varieties and affect my left hand.

I would investigate posture and setup before looking for a different instrument. Some size/design elements might matter, but I suspect that scale length and 12/14-fret design are less significant than one might think.

[Shortfinger]

Alvarez Yairi PYM70. Parlor shape, short scale, 12 fret, slotted head.

Here is Brian playing a custom version, with a little more bling than the straight model, which sells for about $2,500, including tax, and includes a beautifully-fitted case. The custom features seen are MOP in the top binding and chrome-finish tuning machines. The PYM70 has 5-thickness holly-ebony-ivoroid binding, and brass-finish tuners.

Listen to it thump and ring. A beautiful guitar. Look at its size and how he can wrap himself around it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfZbP8Zlfo&loop=0

I've had mine for a couple weeks.

[JERZEY]

It might be time to take up nylon.....

[tippy5]

I like my 2015 Martin 00-15. 12 fretter, slot head, full scale length, 1.75 and 2 3/16" saddle, deep body.

All mahogany for the smaller budget with good (non boxy) tone.

[zombywoof]

Hey, look at it this way. While chronologically you are a Boomer you are still young enough to fall into the V. 2.0 category so for better or worse missed a whole lot of stuff those of us born during the Truman administration went through.

But I am in the same category as an above poster in that my hand issues are arthritic in nature compounded by the wear and tear of a had I known I would have been hanging around this long I would have taken better care of myself thing.

But if you are suffering from what they call a repetitive stress injury or something such as tennis or golf elbow it is not going to be same same thing. Somebody has already mentioned posture. So maybe try something like holding your guitar kinda like Bill Wyman held his bass. I have taken to that (although not quite at the more extreme angle Bill did) and have found it more comfortable when it comes to left hand fretting. Also you might want tp experiment with neck carves - round shoulder C, tapered shoulder C, shallow C, soft V, or whatever. I would think these would come more into paly than body style and such.

Also there are all kinds of sites out there dealing with massage techniques, exercises and such.

[SingingSparrow]

I am not sixty but I have done a lot of manual labor and wrecked my shoulders, ankles, hands, psoas, lats, traps, neck, pecs (you name it) a couple of years ago.

It was actually during this forced break from work/life that inspired me to pick up the guitar. Of course, the issue was -- it bloody hurt! This was at a time I could not pick up a coffee cup or even steer the car.

A 12 fret short scale guitar strung lightly certainly helped immensely. I was in a store desperately trying to find something that suited me after a couple of months of painful playing and fell in love with the feel and sound of a waterloo wl-12. It was ridiculous spending 1980 dollars on a guitar when I could not play a chord. But I am so very glad I did.

At any rate, I still have many lingering issues. I am afraid they are here to stay. Nevertheless, with time and experimenting one learns how to adapt.

We are all different, but I would strongly recommend a short scale 12 fret guitar that has a good sound with 11s. And of course, very importantly - with a neck profile that suits you.

I love my waterloo but would also recommend a cutaway. Not that it is hard to go past the 12 fret on a 12 fret guitar, but that when managing a compromised body, the cutaway makes playing past the body joint immensely more comfortable (ime.)

Best of luck. I empathize.

[SingingSparrow]

PS- yes, exercise, self-care, and posture awareness (so very hard for me) are crucial.

[Br1ck]

Originally Posted by Boozehound

This is worth emphasizing. I don't think I've ever come across a guitar, including boutique builds, that couldn't benefit from some amount of setup work - particularly lowering the nut slot height. A lot is made of the action at the 12th fret, but the action at the nut is even more important IMHO in making a guitar easy to play.

I'd go a step further and advise a fret level and crown be a part of your setup, enabling a straighter neck with little relief. My D 35 has .013s and plays easily with .004 relief. I hammer on that guitar, and no buzz.

[DaveG]

I have both hand/wrist and shoulder problems. I found that my 00-18 helps tremendously with both. The shorter scale and less tension is easier on my hand, and the size is much better for my shoulder. It's one of the most comfortable guitars I've played.