Who do you recommend for teaching Music Theory on YouTube

[walternewton]

Originally Posted by cheekygeek

The top review in the link above includes what each chapter of that one covers.

You can already be learning most all of that stuff right now, for free, at the link I provided in the first reply to the thread...how are the lessons there coming?

[jackcooper]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Jack, I'd also like to ask what you consider "theory," and which bits and pieces you think would help a beginner.

I definitely have my ideas, but I'd like to see someone else's too.

Well I think a beginner should always start with the musical alphabet. Just knowing A-G and where the sharps and flats lie is the beginning of music theory.

Learning the names of each fret on the 5th and 6th/1st string is another important first step.

Tones and semitones.

Construction of major scale (and explanation of it's importance) using T T S T T T S

Learning how to play a major scale on one string (starting from any note).

Intervals.

Basic chord construction using intervals. Differences between Major, Minor Augmented and Diminished.

Construction of other scales types.

Circle of 5ths. Chord families.

These are just some of the theory basics that I think are essential for a basic understanding.

Of course it doesn't need to take place in the first week of learning, but I'm always happy for a student to take the initiative and ask me questions if they get stuck.

[jackcooper]

Originally Posted by cheekygeek

Thank you, Jack. A guitar-centric book looks good (although I see that this one has many more reviews).

The top review in the link above includes what each chapter of that one covers. Maybe that can help guide discussion of what things are foundational and what are going to be the most helpful.

Hi Darren,

I don't have that particular book but it looks like a good one also.

The piano is definitely the most practical instrument on which to explain basic theory. I occasionally use mine as a teaching aid for guitarists.

But yes it is probably best to start with a book like this that allows for the fact that you are a guitarist and not a pianist.

[Bern]

Based on your post, OP, I would suggest to hook up with a qualified guitar teacher and good communicator, who would know what you know and what you don't know, and, teach you starting at the level you're at. A youtube video could not answer that question. You see, when you take lessons with a live teacher you have always the option to ask questions.
Basically, I'm totally against youtube lessons in regards to music theory for people who start out.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by cheekygeek

Hey all,
Trying to use the collective's brain to save me a little time here. I'm a newbie learning my first chords and there is only so much time in the day that I can actually practice with my guitar. But I'd like to continue to "feed my brain" while I'm waiting for my fingertips to cool down, etc.

I'm also the sort of person who likes to understand systems, rather than just learn things by rote (I like to understand the "why" of things). So I'm interested in understanding Music Theory, especially as it applies to the guitar.

Hi Darren...

The why of music theory compared to learning to play music is like the why of English grammar and learning to spell and form sentences.

Depends on how much you already know, and how far you want to go with the theoretical.

A good set of principles to understand about music are major and minor scales, and then the major and minor chords which emanate from the major scale. This doesn't not depend on know note names, but intervals first.

Knowing intervals, and then learning note names leads to an understanding of how basic triads are formed (we call them major or minor chords) in relationship to the major scale, and how to recognize, voice and implement chords in a song. These are best seen/demonstrated on a piano keyboard. Do you play piano/keyboard?

That much information would keep you busy while your fingertips toughen, and would be a good jump-off for other useful musical principles.

Don't know where to send you to get that bit of info, but it's pretty basic to understanding many other parts of the system. These are things I dole out to students as they grow.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

These are best seen/demonstrated on a piano keyboard.

Well, Larry, we've talked about this before and I still disagree somewhat in regards to guitar theory, although, I do understand where you're coming from.
Lets take a beginning guitar player, for example. If he or she has no prior musical background and is still learning basic technical skills, to transfer the theoretical aspects of music from piano to the fretboard I see as being very difficult and detrimental, which could end up in frustration or even quitting guitar playing altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of guitar players could not tell you the keys on the piano. You, as a teacher, should know, it's important to make guitar playing and the theory that goes with it as exciting as possible for the student.
I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by cheekygeek

Thank you, Jack. A guitar-centric book looks good (although I see that this one has many more reviews).

The top review in the link above includes what each chapter of that one covers. Maybe that can help guide discussion of what things are foundational and what are going to be the most helpful.

I have that book, and it's one of the ones I'd usually recommend. (I always recommend at least 2; one is never enough .)

However, if you had to restrict yourself to a single book, that is an excellent one. It has exercises and quizes to test your progress, and comes with a CD too. It's well organized, everything pretty much in the best order.
It does cover a hell of a lot of ground, so (in places anyway) you'd need to take it slow, and maybe take time off to play around with the concepts - make sure your ears are understanding it, as well as your intellect.

The bad reviews it gets seem to be complaining that it doesn't address why this all matters. But if you didn't already believe theory mattered (and have some idea why), you wouldn't buy a book, right? Most of the poor reviews suggest the reader has not read it properly or slowly enough. Yes, it's "jargon heavy", one says - what did he expect? "Hey, this French language book is full of foreign words!!"
(Other reviews complain the Kindle version doesn't contain the audio tracks and the print and diagrams are too small. So - don't get the kindle version...)

More importantly, one of the 4-star reviews picks up on three typos (and typos matter in this business!). Two of these are indeed mistakes: calling the 3rd on V degree of the major scale "mi" when it should be "Ma" (p.35), and calling Am7 the "iv" chord of C major when it should be "vi" (p.59). However, the third "error" he spots is his own mistake (the book is correct). And one could argue that if you've read the earlier sections properly, by the time you get to p.35 (let alone 59), you'll spot these as typos yourself.

Of course, you can't expect one book to tell you absolutely everything. (This is why I usually recommend 3 or 4.) It's arguable that this book - especially in later chapters - introduces you to way too many advanced concepts for you to handle, without some musical experience and maybe help from elsewhere. But that's a reason to take a long time with this book. You may be working with it (and through it) for many years. That's what I call value for money! (You think you'd find years' worth of useful info from a youtube lesson??)

[Hotspur]

I have a slightly different take. I don't think you should get a guitar-centric theory book.

I think it's better to get a book on general theory and do the work yourself to make sure you understand how to apply those concepts to the guitar. It's not actually that much work, but it's important to not get trapped in thinking of these things as "shapes on a fretboard" and this will help with that.

So the book I recommend in Harmony and Theory by Shroeder and Wyatt. It's a workbook which will walk you through all the basics. As the authors of that book mention, however, you NEED to be working on your ear at the same time. Ear training is more important than theory. Furthermore, you don't understand a concept until you can hear it in practical use.

Once your ear develops a bit, I'd strongly recommend "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles" by Dominic Pedler. It's expensive but worth it - very dense, tons of information (much more information than your typical hal-leonard-style book). It is the best practical examination of theoretical concepts that I've ever seen - every concept is related to songs and discussed. It's a great, great book.

[Mellow_D]

Originally Posted by jackcooper

I actually see no reason not to learn a little theory on the side.

I don't know about YouTube vids, but this is a great guitar based book that I recommend to all my guitar students.

http://www.amazon.com/Guitarists-Mus...itarist+theory

Not too advanced or heavy, starts from the beginning and easy to follow.

If you don't understand bits and pieces, I'm sure a question here will yield the answer.

Does The Guitarist's Music Theory Book that you recommend come with a DVD (with an instructor who talks to you, who SHOWS you as he or she explains theory each step of the way)?

If not, are there books with DVDs? (I have tried to read some theory books about scales, modes, major/minor keys, which scales to use with these and not those chord progressions, etc. and sometimes I just feel overwhelmed and wish there were an actual person explaining things, pointing things out, SHOWING and not just telling).

Thanks

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

I have a slightly different take. I don't think you should get a guitar-centric theory book.

I agree, but just to get off the ground a guitarist needs a fretboard note map at least, and an idea of where those notes appear on notation.

Once one has that then, yes, I agree any standard theory book ought to be good enough, and maybe better than a guitar-centric one.

Originally Posted by Hotspur

I think it's better to get a book on general theory and do the work yourself to make sure you understand how to apply those concepts to the guitar. It's not actually that much work, but it's important to not get trapped in thinking of these things as "shapes on a fretboard" and this will help with that.

True. The Tom Kolb book does use shapes, but only in conjunction with notation. Eg the first appearance of chord box diagrams is preceded by the notation for those chords. So it begins with theory, then shows the application to the fretboard. The theory always takes precedence throughout.
(However, having looked at the book again, I have reservations about the way he deals with modes. None of it is wrong, exactly, but - as we know - it's a very tricky topic, and would benefit from a lot more background and contextual information. IMO he could have safely omitted the topic entirely, or saved it for another book.)

Originally Posted by Hotspur

So the book I recommend in Harmony and Theory by Shroeder and Wyatt. It's a workbook which will walk you through all the basics. As the authors of that book mention, however, you NEED to be working on your ear at the same time. Ear training is more important than theory. Furthermore, you don't understand a concept until you can hear it in practical use.

Agreed again. I also like that book, and the way it's organised. It's possibly more suitable for an absolute beginner than Kolb's.

Just to point out one mistake:
Chapter 3, exercise 6: the enharmonic of Cb is B natural - not B# as given in the answers.

[jackcooper]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

I have a slightly different take. I don't think you should get a guitar-centric theory book.

I think it's better to get a book on general theory and do the work yourself to make sure you understand how to apply those concepts to the guitar. It's not actually that much work, but it's important to not get trapped in thinking of these things as "shapes on a fretboard" and this will help with that.

The problem is that many people lose interest if they can't easily relate it to the guitar. I like to teach on one string before learning the "shapes". If someone can understand how scales work in a linear way they can avoid only thinking in shapes when using 6 string patterns. Too many book begin with 6 string patterns.

[jackcooper]

Originally Posted by Mellow_D

Does The Guitarist's Music Theory Book that you recommend come with a DVD (with an instructor who talks to you, who SHOWS you as he or she explains theory each step of the way)?

If not, are there books with DVDs? (I have tried to read some theory books about scales, modes, major/minor keys, which scales to use with these and not those chord progressions, etc. and sometimes I just feel overwhelmed and wish there were an actual person explaining things, pointing things out, SHOWING and not just telling).

Thanks

It doesn't come with a DVD, but it really is a very approachable book. If you take it one chapter at a time I'm sure you'd have no trouble getting your head round it. Asking any questions here is another good option.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Bern

...You, as a teacher, should know, it's important to make guitar playing and the theory that goes with it as exciting as possible for the student.
...I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make.

Hi Bern...

It's a discussion group not a let's-all-hold-hands-&-get-along-group…so I welcome discussion among we participants.

Guitar students occasionally ask me about theory, and I point them to music theory classes at the local community college. Learning music theory is a full-time occupation, equal in scope to taking guitar lessons themselves.

Theoretical aspects of music are seldom exciting in and of themselves. Whether theory is exciting or not is dependent on the personality of the student.

That's one reason I prefer to teach guitar, not music theory.

I love for players to know how to play well, listen to a piece and figure out chords, melodies and chords and play in a way it's fun for them and any listeners nearby.

As Jeff (Mr. B) has pointed out, most of what people are asking for around here are just shadows or little fragments of actual music theory as applied to a guitar. Once Music Theory is learned (grasped and understood), it can be applied by a guitarist, flutiest, violinist, singer or saxophonist.

Keyboards don't confuse guitar players...
I actually introduce/use a small battery operated keyboard during lessons…when we hit the major scale and chord construction parts of guitar lessons. It shortens the process of understanding how to build triads (and more complex chords later in the process), and brings an understanding of chord structure as applied to a major scale in a few minutes during one lesson.

Once chord theory is understood, it's not hard then to apply it to the fingerboard of the guitar at all. Taught in key of C on a keyboard, the student doesn't even have to know names of notes on a staff, keyboard or guitar fingerboard to benefit from it and understand it.

Feel free to disagree with me. I hear you saying is that a keyboard might confuse you and be confusing to transfer from the keyboard to the fingerboard. My experience teaching this for the past 37 years locally is the opposite.

Most of my students who are trying to grasp chord theory have things clarified once they see it laid out in a simple fashion on a keyboard, and then begin to attach it to guitar.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Feel free to disagree with me. I hear you saying is that a keyboard might confuse you and be confusing to transfer from the keyboard to the fingerboard. My experience teaching this for the past 37 years locally is the opposite.

It wasn't me I was talking about, Larry. I'm proficient enough to use a keyboard to figure things out if I need to.
I was saying, lets take a beginning guitar player, for example. If he or she has no prior musical background and is still learning basic technical skills, to transfer the theoretical aspects of music from piano to the fretboard I see as being very difficult and detrimental, which could end up in frustration or even quitting guitar playing altogether.

[cheekygeek]

I took some piano lessons as a lad, but my impatient mother was my teacher so I didn't take it very far.

I understand time signatures and what the different notes mean and understand the treble clef (to a lesser extent the bass clef). Know the notes on the keyboard, including sharps & flats. Know what a chord is, but not what makes a "good one". Have just the barest understanding of what a "key" is.

I guess I just don't see what it will hurt to look into some of this, in addition to getting in my practice time each day.