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Question about Tonedexter
If i recorded Martin guitar with piezo at tonedexter,
and i plug Gibson with piezo in tonedexter, Is sound like Martin? |
#2
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My understanding is this (but I could be wrong): ToneDexter takes the output of the mic and compares it with the output of the pickup, and uses that comparison to adjust the pickup output, when played through the ToneDexter, to sound as close as possible to the sound from the mic. In other words, it applies a differential, not the entire sound. Applying the wavemap from one guitar to another may or may not improve the sound, but I doubt it could make a Gibson sound like a Martin. James May, the inventor of the ToneDexter, may want to jump in here to correct anything I've said that isn't true. Update: Doug Young explains it better than I can here: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=526307
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Patrick 2012 Martin HD-28V 1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832 2018 Gretsch G5420TG Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage ToneDexter Bugera V22 Infinium Last edited by phcorrigan; 03-20-2020 at 03:57 PM. |
#3
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There are cases that seem to work, like James May's demo of the Yamaha Silent guitar, using a wavemap from another classical. I'm not sure he makes the Yamaha sound just like the full guitar, but it certainly sounds better.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
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I wonder if Tonedexter responds to personal “attack” of guitar player? I have no burning desire to deal with microphones or the fuss involved. Could I (theoretically) “hire” someone to take my guitar, (my typical strings) my brand new ToneDexter and produce several wave maps? Then I would just use the ones I like best? Would the final product (character of sound) be any different whether I “plucked” the strings or if my “hired man” did the job? Or a “robot” for that matter, plucking the strings! Also, would the age of the strings matter? Should the strings be “broken in”? Not new, but not old and dead either. I love the idea of getting a mic-ed sound but I have never dealt with microphones and prefer not to go down that road.
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#5
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I think a lot of these questions (like string age) are answered on the audio sprockets site. I don't think it would make much difference how it is played, or who plays it. ToneDexter is computing the difference between what the mic hears and what the pickup hears. Unless you do something that makes those be inconsistent - example, playing all percussive tapping with a pickup that doesn't even produce sounds for those - your playing attack shouldn't make much difference. Note that the "fuss" is much less than you think. Plug in a mic, any mic with an XLR jack, put it where they show you on the site, and play. 30 (or less) seconds later, you'll have the result. The concern about mics, etc, is exaggerated in my experience. Yes, different mics and different mic placements will produce different results, but *any* mic, any reasonable placement, will produce a big improvement over the straight pickup in most cases.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
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Thank you for the explanation! If you could provide a “shoot-from-the-hip” answer, you would be my hero! All 5 of my guitars have only KK passive mini pickup technology. I plug into a GraceAlix preamp then off to AER/60 amp. I do bring reverb into the Alix. Do you think if I went down the ToneDexter “rabbit-hole” I would see a VERY noticeable difference? Or closer to “somewhat” or “slight” difference? I know this is a bit of a tricky question but, do you think the difference would be “night and day”? (I apologize, I understood sound/tone is subjective)
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I’ll answer based on my experience. I have 3 K&K equipped guitars that I used with a Grace Felix because I really wanted to dial in the unique characteristics of each guitar, which the Felix did a great job at. I was always a bit skeptical re: what the TOnedexter might bring bring compared to the tweaking I was doing with the Felix. After buying a tonedexter and finding the right mic, and learning the right distance and placement for the mic (SE Electronics SE8) I sold my Felix. My guitars have never sounded so good when I use the tonedexter. Will it do the same for your gear? I don’t know. It certainly has made a believer out of me, and I sure don’t miss the tweaking with the Felix (although it is a terrific EQ box).
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Custom Breedlove 12 string guitar Breedlove Deschutes 6 string guitar Deering 12 string banjo Custom Emerald X20-12 guitar |
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Thank you so much for the response! (Here we go.......... (talking to myself guitarwebguy, not you!..)
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Caveats: There are some (a few, I'd say) people who have not been happy with their results - no one likes everything - but as best as I can tell, those are mostly people who play in bands and want a sound that will "cut thru" the mix, and so on, or who play at high volumes, or possibly in poor acoustics where the "mic" tone gets lost. And of course, some people actually like the sound of a pickup. A good mic'd guitar sound works best through a good PA, and I'd say the same is true with ToneDexter. If you're playing thru poor sound systems, you may not notice enough improvement to matter. ToneDexter will help you come very close to the sound of your acoustic thru a mic. The only question is whether that's the sound you want.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 03-21-2020 at 12:27 AM. |
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My hero!...
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All that being said, I have made TDx wave maps of 3 different guitars with the same pickup. And I've used 2 different mics. And I can switch them around with acceptable success. I won't say it makes one sound like another. But it does color the output of a guitar in a different (and not unpleasing) way towards the target.
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You're talking to me. I hear music. And the whole world is singing along https://marshallsongs.com/ https://www.reverbnation.com/marshal...ther-tragedies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-UGW...neHaUXn5vHKQGA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxDwt26FZc http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/marshallsongs http://www.myspace.com/marshallhjertstedt |
#12
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My thought is IF-it-worked-like-that people would be selling their waveforms sampled with high end guitars and high end mics…or at least we'd be swapping with each other. I own three great guitars which are radically different acoustically (tone-wise) and I'm not impressed when I play any of them through another's waveform on my ToneDexter (and of course I have tried them). |
#13
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I make all the wavemaps for my duo partner, and they sound fine. I do know her style and approach, so I am aware of that when doing the training.
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#14
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This is important - even James said that his performing guitar has 2 pickups in it - his UltraTonic for when he wants a pure natural acoustic sound, and a magnetic pickup, whose output he can run thru a range of effects (overdrive, distortion, flangers, etc) for when he needs that heavily modified electric guitar sound. You can modify the output from your acoustic to a degree, but pickup systems that are geared towards providing natural acoustic output won’t provide the kind of signal you really want for some uses, just as magnetic pickups aren’t designed to provide a natural, mic’d acoustic tone - I like to sometimes use a few effects with my acoustic, (not the heavily modified electric guitar tones), and have found that the Tonedexter output, which sounds great all by itself, can be augmented with an effects box very successfully for the degree of modification I want.
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More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
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There are lots of analogies to this, tho with the danger of just muddying things up :-). But say you're a photographer and you set the white balance of your camera in one lighting situation (for non-camera operators, the white balance basically corrects colors to adjust for lighting differences). Can you use that stored white balance setting in a completely different envrionment? Sure. It will definitely change the way colors look. It might even look very cool. But it won't be white-balanced for the new environment, and it won't make one lighting setup look like another. However, "training" the camera by re-adjusting the white balance for each location can make colors look correct in each location, just as training your Gibson will make it sound like a Gibsom, and training a Martin will make it sound like a Martin.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 03-21-2020 at 01:08 PM. |