Suggestions for recording with Taylor ES2

RyanR · #1 03-15-2020, 12:32 PM

Help! Anyone have tips for recording with Piezo pickups? Or can point me to a web location with some instruction on this?

The back story...

I just picked up not one but TWO Taylor Guitars - a 517 (Mahagony slope-shouldered dreadnought) and a K14 (Koa, grand auditorium size). Ok I admit it...I was auditioning them with the idea of keeping one (a dangerous idea) and ended up keeping both. Fortunately I have a supportive wife.

The good news is they both sound just lovely when I record them with a mic.

But when I try to go direct, the Taylor ES2 amp is, how do I it say politely - not that good. Or at least I'm having trouble with it. Previously I mostly recorded (and played) direct with my Martin OMC16 which has a built in Roland unit. I don't think I realized until now just how good that unit is at adding back whatever is missing from Piezo pickups.

I also have a classical guitar from Hill Guitar company (cedar and rosewood). Kenny Hill installs a passive Barbera pickup which is truly amazing. So natural sounding.

The Taylor ES2 system generates mixed opinions. A lot is negative but some say they like it. So obviously people do have success with it.

I've tried basics like rolling off the treble but I'm still not getting a natural sound. In Apple Logic Pro I can throw a patch like "natural strum" on a track and roll off some mid and that helps too. But it is still not sounding that great. I imagine I need more precise EQ?

Of course I can just skip the ES2 and use a mic but I'm sure you realize there are times where it is more convenient to go direct. And I have no desire to replace the ES2 with other pickups.

I just want to figure out how to get a more natural sound, or at least a more pleasant sound, with these Piezo pickups.

I need some advice. Any tips? Or advice on where to go to get them?

paulp1960 · #2 03-15-2020, 12:52 PM

Well you said it yourself that they sound great recording with a microphone.
Those pickup systems are more geared to live sound where absolute sound quality takes second place.

jim1960 · #3 03-15-2020, 03:23 PM

Pickups, especially piezo pickups, almost always sound like poop when compared to recordings done with microphones. They're convenient for stage work but if you're expecting pickups to sound as good as microphones when recording, you're going to be disappointed.

RyanR · #4 03-15-2020, 05:21 PM

Well Jim, I imagine you are right. I guess I've been screened a bit from the "perils of piezos" 'cause the only two acoustics I owned happened to sound great plugged in. I'm learning the hard way.

I still need to fiddle some with this ES2 for live sound purposes. I mostly play bass but I occasionally used to plug in my Martin and that worked great. I suppose I can continue to use it in those settings. See I used to be part of a Bass & Guitar duo that played farmer's markets and such. But my partner moved to LA for work and now I'm trying to become a solo act. But this means getting a lot better at guitar. Plus I'll have to figure out the best way to preset live.

jim1960 · #5 03-15-2020, 06:29 PM

I wouldn't get overly concerned about the live sound of your guitar. I've been to plenty of concerts where the guitar didn't sound great and I didn't care because a live performance is about a lot more than the quality of the guitar sound.

Consider this... a live performance is only going to be heard once by most people; a recording will be heard over and over again. The deficiencies of the latter will be glaring because of that fact. But for the former, the sound of the guitar takes a back seat to the performance and will be forgotten pretty quickly.

RalphH · #6 03-16-2020, 04:00 AM

Check you saddle - mine improved dramatically when I fixed it:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=562847

That said, it's still not a match for even a cheap small diaphragm condenser mic...

SprintBob · #7 03-19-2020, 01:46 PM

I have a Tonedexter that works great with my K&K Pure Mini equipped guitars and it happened to work well with my Taylor guitars (I had a K-22 and 714) both of which were ES2 equipped. If you want to record, get a good SDC mic or a pair. The ES2 is really for giving you great plugged in sound and while I thought it was not bad on its own, the Tonedexter for sure made it sound more natural.

RyanR · #8 03-22-2020, 03:53 PM

I've not tried a Tonedexter, but you reminded me I do have a TC Helicon Play Acoustic in the closet. I bought it for the vocals so I've mostly bypassed the guitar FX. But I pulled it out and tried out using the BodyRez feature. At first test it does seem to improve the tone a bit (I felt BodyRez style #2 worked best on this guitar, a Taylor 517). Not like a mic of course but better. I may try more experiments with that pedal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I have a Tonedexter that works great with my K&K Pure Mini equipped guitars and it happened to work well with my Taylor guitars (I had a K-22 and 714) both of which were ES2 equipped. If you want to record, get a good SDC mic or a pair. The ES2 is really for giving you great plugged in sound and while I thought it was not bad on its own, the Tonedexter for sure made it sound more natural.