What is your recording mindset?

[TBman]

I think I might have the wrong approach to recording.

I'll practice something for a short while until I feel comfortable with it. Sometimes I'll try to record it and that process highlights some areas in the piece that need more work so I will go back to practicing it a bit more. Once I have a decent confidence level with it then I will try to get it recorded with as little "takes" as possible and stop once I get a decent recording.

I'm wondering if I should just sit down with a piece and just say, for instance, I'm going to play piece this 20 times with the red light on. Let's see what happens. In other words, don't stop at the first "good" recording, keep going and then pick the best one.

The alternative is to just practice multiple pieces over a period of months (not a couple of weeks) and then see what can be recorded instead of the "rush" to record. Problem is I like to play with my mics and eq toys. The whole process is part of my guitar related self entertainment.

I'm curious about the recording approach of others here (non-professionals) that just record for their own entertainment and for sharing with friends, family and various online sites.

[pf400]

I recorded a CD of 7 songs I had played at a wedding, and found myself making mistakes and even improvements with each take. My time was limited. The Engineer tried to cut and paste for the best final result but did a so-so job. But overall I blame myself. It's rare that I get through a song without making some little errors.

So best case scenario is for me to really learn the piece and just keep repeating until I luck out and get that ultimate take in the bag.

Oddly, my best playing is done under pressure, in front of an audience.

[runamuck]

I don't play solo acoustic guitar. The stuff I write usually includes cello, piano, , ac. guitar, bass, percussion and other things, where ac. guitar is just one of the secondary elements with cello being the main melodic voice.

When I record ac. guitar or piano I'll rehearse the parts in sections, short enough where I can remember the voicings, etc. and then move on.


The only time I'll rehearse something from start to finish is if I'm playing it live, which is rare.

[DupleMeter]

A lot of times, when I'm in the studio with an artist we'll do multiple takes of sections, after getting a couple/few full takes. (e.g. "hey, let's loop verse 1 & see what we can get in a handful of takes").

Sometimes the repetition of a single section helps someone nail it down without having to think about what's coming up next.

[Doug Young]

Probably everyone has their own approach. Mine is generally to make sure I can really play the piece all the way thru, then do quite a few takes, watching for one I think is good. I don't usually stop when I think I got it, tho, there's always a bit of a feeling of "good, that one should do, but now that the pressure's off, let's see if I can do better". Then I listen and see what I've got. Usually I know which I think is the best take, and don't need to listen to them all, but sometimes I'm surprised and prefer an earlier take. With any luck, I've got a take all the way thru that sounds good, or perhaps it needs a few edits.

On thing I have found is that we're not always the best judge when we're playing, so I try not to totally blow a take, like by not holding out the tail, or swearing at the end or something :-) Sometimes, you listen to what you thought was a bad take, and it sounds fine, so I always proceed to the end of the tune as if I played it perfectly, even if I'm pretty sure I messed up somewhere. I just went thru this on the video I posted a few days ago - I played it like 5 times, and really thought only the final take was a keeper. But listening later, the last take was not ideal, and the 2nd or 3rd take was much better, which is what I went with. No ability to edit mistakes on video, so that adds to the pressure...

One of the more interesting and systematic approaches I've seen has been working with Steve Baughman to record some of his pieces. Steve is always super-prepared, and to me, every take he does could be a keeper. But Steve's also super-picky and knows what he's hearing in his head, so he may play something that sounds perfect to me, and he's not happy with it. So we'll do quite a few takes, usually at least 5 or 6, often many more. When he thinks he has at least a good one or two, we stop and he listens to them all, with a paper grid, looking at the time clock as each track plays. He'll make a mark on the timeline for each tune for anything of note - a mistake, or even something he especially likes. He also listens for the overall feel of the track. Since, in general, they're all plenty good enough, in the end, he always goes for the track that he thinks feels the best, even if there's a glaring mistake in it. (He'll often reject a track that has no mistakes, but that he thinks sounds too stiff or something) Then we edit those few spots he doesn't like in the good feeling take to come up with the final track. Anyway, I don't have the patience to be that thorough on my own stuff, but it's interesting to see how a world-class guitarist does it.

[jim1960]

I set up playlists in Pro Tools and do as many takes as I feel is needed for me to create a solid composite. I start from the beginning of the song and at some point figure out how far into it I've gone with results that satisfy me. Then I move on to wherever the good stuff stopped and start doing multiple takes from that point. I repeat the process until I think I have enough for the entire song. Then I create the composite track from those playlists.

I find recording this way reduces the pressure I feel when the red button is lit. The one caveat to this method is you really have to get that track done in one session. Walking away from it and coming back tomorrow is a no-go because it's just not going to sound the same as what you recorded the day before.

[islandguitar]

Hey Barry! Good thread!!
So much of what's already been written rings true with me!

I usually only record in the winter months or late fall early spring with a quiet time, slower schedule and less outside noise. (birds, cars, kids, construction projects in the area).

Also, I'm one that comfortably waits those weeks or months for a time that fits for recording. This is most often, on an evening where I'm "itching" to get it down and the energy feels good and the equipment is all set up. I'm one of those who work toward best full live take, so my prep has to be pretty complete and even then I kind of transition to middle and later takes as things settle in for the best ones. I'll usually shoot for two tunes to record, so if one is just not working well, I switch out to the next, and often times that will bring me back to the original after taking a break. I'm usually confident to get a keeper over one to two hours max.

As with other comments, I'll write down the number of the track after a good to really good take and end up with maybe 10 possible candidates. I usually move right on to the next track, but will also listen intently to a few while I'm recording, which is usually also when I'm taking a breather for a few minutes.
As Doug mentioned, some I think are the best of the lot can be cast off when I really listen back. On the other hand there are nights where I really know I've nailed one and think right away...."I'm done"! But usually I'll keep going to see if I can "better" that track.

Once all is completed I'll write down the track numbers I've listed and then the next day, "grade" them with notes to try and narrow down to the one I'll go with. As indicated this for me also covers the feeling the tune conveys along with the mechanics.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I set up playlists in Pro Tools and do as many takes as I feel is needed for me to create a solid composite. I start from the beginning of the song and at some point figure out how far into it I've gone with results that satisfy me. Then I move on to wherever the good stuff stopped and start doing multiple takes from that point. I repeat the process until I think I have enough for the entire song. Then I create the composite track from those playlists.

I find recording this way reduces the pressure I feel when the red button is lit. The one caveat to this method is you really have to get that track done in one session. Walking away from it and coming back tomorrow is a no-go because it's just not going to sound the same as what you recorded the day before.

Yes, I did the same a few years ago with some covers of Stephen Wake tunes. It does get the job done with a lot less pressure.

[FrankHudson]

I think my outlook is different than many (most?).

PREFACE
I don't think of myself as a competent musician.* However I do have a goal: to get inside various songs and figure out something I can do musically with them. In my current Parlando Project this typically means I take someone else's literary poetry, not originally meant for performance, and to compose something on instruments (usually including guitar) to use with the text. This I'll record, and in many cases make publicly available.

I don't go into this thinking that I'll record some definitive version. I want to do as well as I can to present what I, the composer, comes up with, and I want to do justice to the texts I'm writing the music for -- but my skills are my skills. The things I create are often unlikely to exist if I don't do them-- some of the poets are not well-remembered, and even those that are "poetry-famous" may have elements of their work that haven't been brought out before. I sometime include chord sheets, like the old Broadside and Sing Out magazines did in the old days in the hope that others will do better than I can with the stuff.

ACOUSTIC GUITAR RECORDING
I have a template setup to record acoustic guitar, and my vocal and the mics are already out and in place in my studio space. Once I get there, I get a guitar out of the case, sit down and tune it. I wake up my old computer** and load the DAW with my template.

I then do 3-10 takes of the piece all the way through, two guitar mics, one vocal mic.** While I may stop to recheck tuning, to maybe try another key, to take a sip of tea, or to switch to another guitar (my acoustics are all in my studio space), I'm often just doing takes bang-bang-bang. The first one or two takes are usually pretty bad, as I don't warm up, and sometimes I haven't played a great deal when not recording. I generally find that as I repeat the vocal performance I start to find discover things I want to add or bring out. Somewhere around the 3rd-6th take I start to find my approach settling down. As someone says above. once I have what I think is likely an acceptable take, I always aim to do at least one more. I listen back to the takes afterward and choose the winner. I will comp acoustic guitar and vocal tracks recorded live this way, but not all that often.*** When I do it's generally with a good take that has a lesser rendition of maybe one verse.

I mix later, and I'll sometimes overdub bass or a little bit of keys DI in my little home office, but I'm answering here for the more typical acoustic guitar stuff that the AGF might relate to.

I used to have repeating, schedulable multi-hour blocks to do such recording. Generally now it's maybe an hour to two. I really get in, get the recording happening and get out.

To sum up, I'm in the "good enough" recording school. I enjoy highly skilled musicians and appreciate great recording engineering. I've learned from folks here and admire what they do. I do try to do what I can with what I have and what I know. If I had the budget I'd want an engineer and better equipment. I perhaps should do fewer pieces with more deliberation on each one. But, at my age and my aims, I know those are other lifetimes.


*By my definition I wouldn't call my myself a musician, even though I'm playing music often enough. To me that would mean I could do a fair measure of basic musical things competently, the way one would expect a professional or dedicated amateur in another field would be able to do something.

**All three are Warm Audio condenser mics, a WA-87 LDC and a pair of WA-84 SDC. These mics are not necessarily liked by those with greater experience here, but that's what I have currently. The two SDCs are spaced pair aimed the bridge and body/neck join.

***Away from live vocal with acoustic guitar tracking, I'll comp much more often -- but I'm not describing that kind of recording for reasons of length. When I'm doing keyboards or orchestral VI instruments the process is much more about editing and revising. I used to do a fair amount of live electric band recording, some of which got released as part of the Project, but much less in the past few years.

[phcorrigan]

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I don't have the ability right now to block out time to record. The only thing I've been able to do recently is an online open mic once a week, which I haven't been recording. Since I'm going through my mixer to DAW to OBS to Zoom, I've decided to record every song I play, with the audio being recorded by the DAW and the video by OBS. Even if I get nothing I'm happy with at least I will have useful practice.

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

...an online open mic once a week, which I haven't been recording.

That's a cool idea!

[kellyb]

Yesssss...such a good thread!

In general, I'm always working towards a reliable workflow where things can happen relatively quickly, i.e., record the vocals and acoustic at the same time, have drum mics set up, a direct channel ready for bass, electric guitar mic'd up, etc. because the longer it takes me to a basic structure down, the easier it is (for me) to lose what got me excited about whatever I'm recording in the first place.

It's been quite awhile since I tried to enlist a band, but when I used to, it was the "demos" that bandmates responded to most. Ultimately, whether it's me playing everything or playing with others (always more fun), I'm always trying to get to a place where the "demos" are together enough that I don't feel like I need to fix or improve them. I'm absolutely not there yet haha.

If you ARE recording everything yourself, with a click, etc., I'm a big believer in what Steve's (DupleMeter) practice of repeating sections to write them and especially to get comfortable with them. The one caveat IME (if writing parts that way) is that if the sections are short and, on their own, contextually different than the song, you can end up writing really cool parts that don't work in the context of the song. Or writing a new song. All of these things are fun and great, but sometimes I just want to keep moving on one thing and actually get it done. :-)

[rockabilly69]

The only mindset I have is that I have templates for recording in my house.

In the template I have (3) vocal tracks (lead vocal and two harmonies), (6) acoustic guitar tracks (2 m/s setups), and (4) electric guitar channels (2 setups of dynamic on cone of amp, condensor or ribbon slightly back at to the edge of the cone). And for this I started with a 16 channel template so that I would have extra tracks as needed just in case I want to add a bass or some percussion.

All vocals are recorded with a Rode Classic II mic, for single channel acoustic guitar recording I use ether a AKG C414EB P48 or a Violet Globe Vintage. If I want to record m/s I'll most likely use the two mics together, or use the Globe and a Blue Kiwi (in fig 8). Electric guitars are generally recorded with a Sennheiser MD421 II and sometimes I add a Violet Amethyst.

Vocals are generally preamped with Langevin DVC, and guitars a Drawmer 1960. This gear isn't super high end, but I know it well, and I can dial in a sound I like almost instantaneously.

It's in my house where I write 95% of my songs, so I like it very organized and very easy to start recording. Many times I use the computer as a musical sketch pad where I will record a phrase and then look for something that will work with it. When I find something that moves me I start writing lyrics right there while I'm looping a verse or chorus.

In my studio all bets are off as I try and shake it up all the time looking for new sounds and new ways to do things. I have higher end gear there and the room sounds great so I get slightly better recordings there.

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

...Langevin DVC, and guitars a Drawmer 1960. This gear isn't super high end...

I had a DVC maybe 15 years ago...I'm nostalgic for it sometimes. :-)

[KevWind]

Good thread Barry
So I guess my method is somewhat similar to rockabilly's

Like rockabilly69 I learned a long time ago that user defined templates are a self recordists best friend They allow for starting the computer launching the DAW , open the template and hitting record (see below )

I record mostly in winter as summers are pretty busy

As far as work flow since I play and sing up until about two years ago I would lay down the rhythm Acoustic guitar and that was usually all the way thru , and then dub the vocal and then Dub any additional instruments real or VI which of course yields the cleanest and most distinct recording and I would often comp the vocal and lead guitar riffs
Then I got interested in trying to record like my live performances Guitar and vocal at the same time in one continuous take start to finish
Which is a bit more challenging only in that you have to know and be able to play the song all the through and you have to deal with bleed between the mics (if you use more than one)

What I try to do to avoid Red Light Fever RLF is the same as I try to do for live performance (stage nerves) and that is have the piece down cold
To Quote Chris Procter An amateur practices until they get it right- -A Pro practices until they can't get it wrong

As for template here is my basic Guitar & Vocal template with
3 guitar parts A Ry Gtr -- A Ld Gtr -- E Ld Gtr ,, each with a pair of left and right audio tracks outputting to a Routing Folder stereo track
2 Vocal tracks outputting to a stereo Routing Folder track
A stereo parallel Reverb Aux Input track. (M7)
A stereo main Sub Bus Aux Input track (2 Mix ) that everything routes to.
And a stereo Master Fader track for any final Plugins