? on Legato, not fast shifts/hammer-ons

[SunnyDee]

I don't quite know how to ask this, because I've never seen anyone talk about it. So, it's about legato, but these days, in guitar, most people start talking about hammer-ons and pull-offs when they say legato, but my question is not that, and classical guitarists talk about shifting all at once really quickly and smoothly along one string, but it's not really that either.

Here's an example: It's when you are holding down a chord, say a open C and you are playing a finger style pattern and let's say the B string, note C, is the last note you play right before you switch to an open Em, so if you switch all at once, you are going to interrupt that last C note sustain and it doesn't sound so nice. So what I want to know is do people talk about something like maybe shifting to an Em with the C note on the B string still in place, maybe starting to play the Em bass note or something, before picking up the C finger late in the timing? In other words do people change the way they transition between the chords to make it smoother, rather than just trying to move all at once faster.

And most importantly, if people do this, what do they call it, so I can maybe find people talking about how they do it, maybe there are some techniques or principles or... something. Does anybody talk about it?

[rick-slo]

A lot of things can not be played legato in a strict sense nor do they need to be. Make your chord and fingering changes quick and move away from the prior note(s) a bit short of their full time value as needed. Try playing some notes staccato just to hear the contrast.

[LeftArm]

Legato is playing every note to its full length and yes people do as you suggest by changing chords finger by finger rather than a jump from chord to chord.
The Delcamp classical guitar forum is a good place to talk and learn about classical technique.

[stanron]

From a slightly different point of view, and in this instance only, if you pull off the C note you will have an open B which is in the Em chord. Pull off cleanly and the C to B notes will sound legato.

[Mr Picky]

In the solo fingerstyle arrangements I tend to play it is quite common to 'leave fingers behind' to either maintain the melody on top of the chords, or let the note ring out a bit longer - often hinted by "let ring" for that section of the score.

Having said that, I wouldn't normally be holding down the whole chord anyway when working with 2/3/4 strings at a time, and it might be easier to forget traditional chord shapes (and which fingers you normally use) to make these transitions easier...

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by stanron

From a slightly different point of view, and in this instance only, if you pull off the C note you will have an open B which is in the Em chord. Pull off cleanly and the C to B notes will sound legato.

Yes, Stanron, I understand, sometimes I do this, too, depends which sounds better in the melody, I guess.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Mr Picky

often hinted by "let ring" for that section of the score.

Having said that, I wouldn't normally be holding down the whole chord anyway when working with 2/3/4 strings at a time, and it might be easier to forget traditional chord shapes (and which fingers you normally use) to make these transitions easier...

Ah, "let ring" a clue! Thanks. Oh, yes, good point on the fewer fingers, and, yeah, I don't use traditional fingerings anyway. Turns out I independently developed several of the fingerings that James Taylor uses.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by LeftArm

Legato is playing every note to its full length and yes people do as you suggest by changing chords finger by finger rather than a jump from chord to chord.
The Delcamp classical guitar forum is a good place to talk and learn about classical technique.

Right! I don't understand why people talk about hammer-ons and pull-offs as if that's what legato means. Difficulties of a youtube student.

Thank you for that forum suggestion. I will check into that.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

A lot of things can not be played legato in a strict sense nor do they need to be. Make your chord and fingering changes quick and move away from the prior note(s) a bit short of their full time value as needed. Try playing some notes staccato just to hear the contrast.

Right, thanks, I realize I do that sometimes, too. Open Dm to G sounds better lifting off sooner, for example. Staccato gives a different feel for sure.

[rick-slo]

A bigger "problem" (depending on how you look at it I suppose) are notes ringing way beyond their time values. That
can be notes you picked or notes from sympathetic vibrations. It can take some doing on one's part to prevent things
from mucking up. One advantage of the classical (nylon) guitar is its quicker decay (especially on the treble strings).

For example see how closely you can apply the indicated note time values - not too short or too long:

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

A bigger "problem" (depending on how you look at it I suppose) are notes ringing way beyond their time values. That
can be notes you picked or notes from sympathetic vibrations. It can take some doing on one's part to prevent things
from mucking up. One advantage of the classical (nylon) guitar is its quicker decay (especially on the treble strings).

For example see how closely you can apply the indicated note time values - not too short or too long:

Oh, great, thanks, like I needed a bigger problem!

Thank you, really this is interesting. I haven't really noticed it. I wonder if my duller/warmer strings and mahogany top dampens this issue. Hm, I'll think about this.

[dkstott]

Delcamp forum is the best place to discuss true classical technique.

Once you are registered, there is a ton of free instruction and you can take part in free on-line group classes.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by dkstott

Delcamp forum is the best place to discuss true classical technique.

Once you are registered, there is a ton of free instruction and you can take part in free on-line group classes.

I see that! It looks great. I registered right away. I'll fill out a profile later today. Thanks for the suggestion. I had never seen it.