Changing Tempos

[kellyb]

I'm not sure how interesting this will be to those that don't incorporate drums/percussion or record to click tracks, but...

I'm super indecisive about tempos, and DAW technology only enables me further by letting me +/- the tempo of recorded audio a couple of BPM before it starts to sound weird. And so today, it's 131. Tomorrow it may sound better at 130. 131.5 the day after that.

Anybody else experience this? I'm wondering if it's just neurotic, or maybe it's because there's something else going on that I haven't identified yet that's causing a disturbance in the force?

[rick-slo]

Yes I would say that your question "I'm wondering if it's just neurotic" is true.

[jim1960]

I go through that sometimes. The way I approach it is to prioritize the vocals. Where the vocals sit best for me is what determines the tempo. The vocal is the most important thing you're going to record.

So one way to approach it is to lay down a very simple drum track (something requiring little time commitment since you'll redo it later). It can be as simple as one pattern for the verses and another for the chorus. Don't look for flourishes to make it interesting. Just keep it quick and simple. Then use that drum track to figure out the best tempo for the vocals. Adjust the tempo in your daw and sing along. You should find the right tempo that way.

This isn't an uncommon problem for people starting out and it does become less of an issue once you get some experience.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by kellyb

..I'm wondering if it's just neurotic..

Oh no. Even not using a click track, I go into the studio with metronome practice notes, having gone back-and-forth for weeks between something like, say, 68 or 69... Recently on puremix.com, I watched Greg Wells, a brilliant, pop producer that I admire, work with a singer, and they went back-and-forth quite a bit on just one or two BPM. I think, finding the right pocket is everything. However, inevitably I will accidentally hear something I recorded a few years ago and always think it's now way too fast or too slow

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Oh no. Even not using a click track, I go into the studio with metronome practice notes, having gone back-and-forth for weeks between something like, say, 68 or 69... Recently on puremix.com, I watched Greg Wells, a brilliant, pop producer that I admire, work with a singer, and they went back-and-forth quite a bit on just one or two BPM. I think, finding the right pocket is everything. However, inevitably I will accidentally hear something I recorded a few years ago and always think it's now way too fast or too slow

Hi Eric! I still have the notes from the exactly ONE lesson that did some years back! Hope you're well!

I feel better reading both your and Jim1960's responses. I also appreciate Greg Wells...I'll have to search that one out...I can't remember what he did that got me interested, and it's years ago now...I like watching him work.

The only thing that seems to be happening consistently for the last couple of years since playing to a click is that songs end up at least 2 BPM faster than than where they started. I also inevitably listen to old recordings and am dumfounded how they sounded fast enough to me when they were recorded. Very strange stuff.

And you said it about the pocket. I've realized listening to a lot of my favorite music that I'm happy to forgive sketchy rhythm for a great song, but I can't stand mine if it's not happening.

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I go through that sometimes. The way I approach it is to prioritize the vocals.
This isn't an uncommon problem for people starting out and it does become less of an issue once you get some experience.

Dang, it's going on a couple of decades haha. Ever the beginner here!

The idea of anchoring with the vocal is deep fried gold, thank you for reminding me!

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Yes I would say that your question "I'm wondering if it's just neurotic" is true.

HAHA...you have no idea. Ugh.

[Gordon Currie]

Well, every artist of any kind has experienced this, and yes it is very often neurotic.

Sometimes that obsessiveness produces a superior outcome, but more often I believe we convince ourselves that it all matters a lot solely because it mattered ONCE in the past.

If the tempo indecision is your only weak area, and you end up nailing it in the end, then great. No harm done to your creative output in the grand scheme.

If there are many other areas where indecision slows you down (or even stops you) then you might want to look at strategies to decide faster.

[kellyb]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Well, every artist of any kind has experienced this, and yes it is very often neurotic...we convince ourselves that it all matters a lot solely because it mattered ONCE in the past.

In this case being this particular is (still) a fun experiment. I don't think I'm trying to match something in the past, but it's an interesting perspective to keep in mind. And, for me, to avoid.

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

If the tempo indecision is your only weak area, and you end up nailing it in the end, then great. No harm done to your creative output in the grand scheme.

That's exactly why I'm continuing to toil. If it doesn't turn out to be as rewarding as I hope, I guess I could have spent that time working on something else, but I'm enjoying the learning.

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

If there are many other areas where indecision slows you down (or even stops you) then you might want to look at strategies to decide faster.

Yeah, that's big. I have a lot of unfinished recordings. I think my problem might be laziness more than anything else!

[mike o]

A few BPM plus or minus makes a big difference to any song if performing or recording. Other than song selection, this ranks #2 in duo conflicts with my wife . She normally wants songs faster than I want to play them. Do to my bass playing roots, I love having more space to work with to create good grooves. Faster tempos equal less groove. Kind of like playing on top of the songs and not in the songs. I do realize that tempo can affect singers ability as well. So we compromise. Eric is correct, a good tempo today will not be how we feel about the same song tomorrow. Everyday can be different and I love it!

One more point regarding OP’s question. Some songs can feel as though a section of the songs, verse, chorus, intos, etc sound better a different tempos, especially if you do not work with a metronome on a regular basis. When it’s time to record at a hard set tempo, this can be a challenge. Not as much an issue for live performance when you’re going for feel.

[rick-slo]

duplicate post

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by kellyb

...

I'm super indecisive about tempos, and DAW technology only enables me further by letting me +/- the tempo of recorded audio a couple of BPM before it starts to sound weird. And so today, it's 131. Tomorrow it may sound better at 130. 131.5 the day after that.

Obsessing over these small of tempo differences is what I think is on the neurotic level. So many other variables are involved in the
final outcome of a recording you could obsess yourself into paralysis.

[Glennwillow]

I decide on a tempo before I start. I seem to have a clock in my head and know when the tempo is right. I never, ever change the tempo after I have started the recording process, though I might use a tempo map to slow down or speed up tempo where a tempo change is part of the song. But all I am doing in this process is matching a rhythm track to what I have already recorded. I know what the tempo should be throughout the song before I ever start.

- Glenn