Any love for an Eastman AR372CE?

[Wags]

I'm mostly an acoustic player and starting to work on my jazz chops. I've got a decent Tele that I recently put 11's on and I've been playing it to practice jazz chords. I certainly enjoy it a lot more with the heavier strings, but it's not comfortable for extended practice session sitting down.

Originally I thought I wanted an ES-335 type guitar. Yesterday I wandered in to a local shop to check out the offerings. I realized I had ruled out archtops in my search but had never actually played one. They put an AR372CE in my hands and I really liked it, especially the acoustic feedback it gave while playing and the 1.75" nut that I'm used to.

Can someone opine as to the build quality and components (I know little about pickups) compared to other options in that price range. It's priced at $1K but I could spend a little more. I generally resist buying online but it may be the only option right now.

[Steve DeRosa]

IME if you're buying in the $1K+/- range your best bets are (in no particular order) Korean-made Gretsch Electromatics (avoid the Chinese stuff), Eastman, and Godin - all of which represent exceptional value-per-dollar so it's simply a matter of the sound/feel you're looking for, and I'd try to find a way to audition all three (once things start opening up again) before making a final decision...

While the Eastman is a straight-ahead jazzbox in the ES-175 mold (albeit with its own sound - neither better nor worse than a Gibson IMO, just different), both the Godin CW II and Gretsch 5420 (their closest comparable models) offer a different take on the theme - more stylistically versatile than the Eastman, and if you're coming over from a Tele I suspect you might appreciate the ability to switch seamlessly between jazz and country/rockabilly tones. Since you're mostly an acoustic player, I also think you'll find a lot to like in the Godin - identical in feel and weight (mine's just a tick over five pounds) to the well-regarded Seagull mini-jumbos - which should make for an easy transition between acoustic and electric, and a familiar feel on the strap...

I'm a Gretsch guy since 1964, and while I'm using a first run G5622T-CB as my all-around gigging guitar I'll be the first to tell you "That Great Gretsch Sound" isn't for everybody; nevertheless, a number of influential jazz players - George Van Eps, Jimmie Webster, Sal Salvador, Mary Osborne - have used them over the years, and their impact in rock and country is undisputed. If you haven't played a recent MIK 5400/5600-Series Electromatic you'll find the neck to be a good compromise between a pure acoustic profile and the sleeker late-model Fender spec - a "thin-U" shape that's not quite as slim as my Brooklyn-original '64 Double Anniversary, but easier-handling than the " '59 style" preferred by many electric players...

As far as pickups go, you've got the classic three genres represented here. The P-90's featured on the Godin were the first-generation jazz pickup: full but not overly "thick" bass, prominent mids, and clear top end when played through a clean tube amp - the sound of early/mid-50's jazz and blues, and the pickup that arguably jump-started rock-&-roll lead guitar in the hands of Chuck Berry and Scotty Moore; by comparison, full-size humbuckers have a smoother, "fatter" sound with less-prominent highs, and IME have become the sound most people typically associate with "jazz guitar." The Gretsch mini-humbuckers - both the iconic Filter'tron and the recent Super Hi-Lo'tron (not to be confused with the original Hi-Lo, which is a true single-coil) - are very much sui generis, characterized by their upper-midrange clarity and "chime"; typically less powerful than P-90's or humbuckers, if you need to cut through a full-band arrangement without resorting to excessive volume, want a little bit of acoustic "air" in your tone - or, as several of the first-wave Brit-invasion acts discovered, be heard over 10,000 screaming fans with inadequate amplification - a Gretsch hollow/semi would be the way to go...

Guild also has some interesting offerings in the $1000-1500 range if you want to go all the way to a 17" body: the recently-discontinued but still-available X-175 and X-175B, the A-150 Savoy (a solid-top, true acoustic archtop with a suspended reissue DeArmond Rhythm Chief pickup), and the edgier X-175 Manhattan Special (two DeArmond Dynasonic pickups - same as the pre-1958 Gretsch hollows - and an electric-blue paint job) and three-pickup candy-apple-red X-350 Stratford; having played a few of the Starfire semis and speaking as the owner of a Starfire 12-string, I personally don't find them to be as good a value as the Gretsch/Eastman/Godin - FWIW a lot of people seem to like them, and if you're not familiar I'd at least give one or two a try...

Bear in mind that all of these are personal impressions - my guitars through my amplifiers, set up to my preferences, played with my technique in the case of the Gretsch and Godin - so your perceptions may be quite different in a hands-on review...

Hope this helps...

[Wags]

Thanks for all the good advice, Steve. Much appreciated.

There are a handful of stores starting to re-open in the Portland area but the stock on hand is pretty limited. I got my hands on a couple Eastman AR732CE's and I think the other one was a 503. I liked them both but after playing them for awhile I realized I needed something with a little kinder action. My goal here is to spend some time woodshedding jazz chords and scales. In order to put the time in I need something more tendon friendly.

Since I'm primarily a jazz pianist I have to devote a certain amount time to keeping my chops gig ready (not sure why, everything's gone away... ). I had some tendonitis/tennis elbow issues last year that put me out of commission for several weeks and since then I've been careful to pay attention to the aches and pains so I don't get a repeat. Overdoing the guitar was definitely a contributing factor, but that was likely due to playing my D-18 incessantly.

Now I've kind of circled back to the idea of a semi-hollow body 335 type guitar that will get a decent jazz tone but be easier to play for long periods. I've been using my Tele with heavier strings, but its not ideal. I'm finding it very uncomfortable sitting and playing for any length of time with it.

Today I found out that there's a Guitar Center open in the next county, about 20 minutes away. I'm going to head down there soon to check out their inventory. The gal on the phone said they had a D'Angelico of some kind which I want to try and "lots" of others . Uhuh.

After that the only option would be to order something online. I don't like that idea. Guitars are so personal, like saxes. I've never bought one before without playing it. For that option I'm leaning toward a Yamaha SA2200.

Thanks again for you input, I'll keep you posted!

[paddybrumson]

I'll back up Steve on the Eastman 372 and any of Godin Kingpins. I've had both. The Godins weigh a little less and the Eastmans feel more substantial without being as heavy as a lot of other archtops. The Eastmans also are pretty lively acoustically (for an all laminate guitar) and are quite good for practicing unplugged. Keep in mind, with the adjustable bridge, you can get the action to a more comfortable level with either guitar and both Eastman and Godin do a decent job finishing their frets to allow for lower action and less relief. Can't really go wrong with either. Also, take a look at the Epiphone ES-175 Premium. Very close to the classic Gibson 175.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Wags

Thanks for all the good advice, Steve. Much appreciated

There are a handful of stores starting to re-open in the Portland area but the stock on hand is pretty limited. I got my hands on a couple Eastman AR732CE's and I think the other one was a 503. I liked them both but after playing them for awhile I realized I needed something with a little kinder action. My goal here is to spend some time woodshedding jazz chords and scales. In order to put the time in I need something more tendon friendly...

Now I've kind of circled back to the idea of a semi-hollow body 335 type guitar that will get a decent jazz tone but be easier to play for long periods. I've been using my Tele with heavier strings, but its not ideal. I'm finding it very uncomfortable sitting and playing for any length of time with it.

Today I found out that there's a Guitar Center open in the next county, about 20 minutes away. I'm going to head down there soon to check out their inventory. The gal on the phone said they had a D'Angelico of some kind which I want to try and "lots" of others . Uhuh.

After that the only option would be to order something online. I don't like that idea. Guitars are so personal, like saxes. I've never bought one before without playing it..!

Some observations/suggestions:

• Paddy's right about the action - drop the bridge a bit and you should be good to go;
• Today's D'Angelicos are DA's in name only, using visual cues to evoke the vibe of the finely-crafted Big-Band era jazzboxes, and IME are no better than (and often fail to measure up to) similar Pac-Rim hollows/semis - many of which can be had at a lower price;
• According to the GC website, every branch in Oregon has one of these in stock:
  
  https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gretsch...tric-Guitar.gc
  
  If you've ever had a jones for a '50s White Falcon but can't handle the $3500 price of admission for a Professional Series '59 (or about ten times that for a primo, no-excuses Brooklyn original), this one sells for about one-fourth that - for which money you're getting a fully-gigworthy instrument, and even if it's not to your tonal taste (Gretsch is a love-it-or-hate-it affair for many) it'll provide a valuable reference point for the level of quality that can be achieved in a Working Joe/Jane's instrument...

[Wags]

Here's the latest on my saga. I played three D'Angelica's today. - Excel EXL-1, a couple different ES types, one was a Premier can't remember the other but it was twice as much. I didn't like any of them.

So on the way back I stopped to look at an Eastman T486B. Only ES type guitars I've found so far with an 1.75" nut. I really liked it and almost bought it except it had a Bigsby on it, which I'd never use and it makes it heavier and less balanced. The tuners were just OK, could be better.

They could order any model so when I got home I took a look at the website. Turns out they use different pickups in the the non-Bigsby T486, but its $100 cheaper. I don't know pickups from shinola, maybe one of you could opine.

The T486 no Bigsby: Neck Pickup: Seymour Duncan Jazz, Bridge Pickup: Seymour Duncan 59

The T486B (for Bigsby I presume): Neck Pickup: Seymour Duncan Phat Cat Neck, Bridge Pickup: Seymour Duncan Phat Cat Bridge

Some the other pickups available in other models:

T386: Neck Pickup:Kent Armstrong HPAN-1N, Bridge Pickup:Kent Armstrong HPAN-1B (cheapest option)

T186MX: Neck & Bridge Pickups:Lollar Custom Wound Imperial Humbucker (higher grade model, solid wood construction, better tuners I would guess - Gotoh SG301-06. This model would likely cost $500/600 more depending on dealer discount.

So? I feel comfortable with this dealer as I've bought from them before. Feels like I'm starting to zero in a little

[Steve DeRosa]

I've played my share of Eastman semis/acoustic archtops, and for my needs (which are somewhat different from yours) I'd be looking at the two extremes:

• T486: Along with the recently-discontinued Korean-made Gretsch 5622 (only available with a Bigsby, BTW) one of the best semis you'll find in the $1K range; fit/finish are competitive with instruments three times the price, and the Duncan Jazz/'59 combination is one of the most popular setups for Gibson-style semis/solids - if not for the 1-3/4" neck I'd own one right now...
• T186: Carved solid premium woods, upgraded hardware, Lollar Imperial pickups, wood binding - everything you'd expect in a $6K+ guitar in a $2K package, far less than what you'd pay for a run-of-the-mill Gibson ES-335; while I've never done an A/B test with a 486 I did compare an early version to a 335, and to my ears the solid woods give the 186 both a livelier acoustic tone and a more "open" amplified sound - you could turn up the treble on your amp and press this one into service for a country tune or two if need be...

Bottom line: the 486 is an excellent in-the-trenches weekend-warrior guitar - every bit the equal of the big names in fit/finish and tone - whereas the 186 offers near-heirloom, custom-shop refinement/construction for the price of lesser instruments (what I said about the D'Angelico line); if you're going to be a "doubler," plan on stepping up to one of the big-name boxes somewhere down the line (there's still the cachet of those century-old marques), and/or anticipate use in a less-than-classy environment (a situation I know well), I'd take the 486 - but if subtle tonal refinement and upscale appointments are paramount, the 186 could easily make you a one-guitar guy...

[Wags]

Cool. I'm not shying away from a little more cash if the 186 will feel the same or better than the one I played today. And sound at least as good. IMO the 486 could use a better set of tuners. I hear it around that the Eastmans are fairly consistent. The nut size is the clincher for me. All the ones I now play are 1.75", except for my Tele. I'd likely sell it to offset some of the difference.

I'll have to go see what the lead time will be.

Sheesh

[Brianl55]

Originally Posted by Wags

I'm mostly an acoustic player and starting to work on my jazz chops. I've got a decent Tele that I recently put 11's on and I've been playing it to practice jazz chords. I certainly enjoy it a lot more with the heavier strings, but it's not comfortable for extended practice session sitting down.

Originally I thought I wanted an ES-335 type guitar. Yesterday I wandered in to a local shop to check out the offerings. I realized I had ruled out archtops in my search but had never actually played one. They put an AR372CE in my hands and I really liked it, especially the acoustic feedback it gave while playing and the 1.75" nut that I'm used to.

Can someone opine as to the build quality and components (I know little about pickups) compared to other options in that price range. It's priced at $1K but I could spend a little more. I generally resist buying online but it may be the only option right now.

I have an AR372CE in a natural finish. The build is very tight, it is a great guitar.

I generally do not buy new instruments and I tried 2 used ES-175's and could not pull the trigger and justify the $ amount. I found this relatively new AR372CE on Reverb without a mark on it and after setting it up I could not be more pleased.

I did replace the Kent Armstrong P/U's with a pair of Super 57's which have a bit more of a growl (although I usually play in a cleaner tone). The Armstrongs are perfectly serviceable, but I came across the Gibson pickups on my local Craigslist for an amazing price and could not resist. It really sounds amazing to my ear.

Overall I am incredibly pleased and this one is a keeper. Except for a vintage E-175, I would put it up against any recent Gibson 175 or any other clone of this model.

I would encourage you to buy a used one, you can find them in the $700-$800 range on Reverb

[Wags]

I just pulled the trigger on a Eastman T185MXCS. Could not get anything in town, 4 month eta on a T486, no eta on the T186 line. I've been hunting around the internet for awhile and the T486's are pretty scarce. Found a new T185 on Reverb and tracked it to a store in Colorado. Turns out he's a long-time luthier with a guitar store in Langdon, CO. Jenson Guitars.

I called and got him at the counter trying to run the store by himself and being busy. I went ahead and bought it off the web site, then called him back. He said it would go out Monday, he makes sure the set-up is good before anything goes out and that I could call him over the weekend when there would be someone else there with him. I think I'm good. Fingers crossed.

This one is the 15" version with Seymore Duncan 59's fore and aft. Sunburst. $2k, I popped for $30 more for 3-5 day shipping. Pretty happy to find it, got a good vibe from the owner. I'll NGD when it gets here.