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  #61  
Old 11-02-2023, 06:50 AM
grinningfool grinningfool is offline
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Default My experience using the John Miner method.

Having read the posts describing what a horror show it can be doing a traditional neck reset on an Alvarez Yairi, I decided to try the steaming method on my DY45.
Iíll describe my process, which took one month.
I started on October 1st. At that time, I had action at the 12th fret of 8/64 and 7/64. I had only 3/64 of saddle above the bridge. My string break angle over the saddle was not good.
The guitar was playable, but there was definitely room for improvement.
I clamped the guitar, and steamed it 6 times over the next two weeks.
Using a straight edge on the neck, I made sure I had 1/4 inch above the bridge.
I left it clamped one more week, for a total of 3 weeks.
After being clamped for 3 weeks, I put the guitar in the case unstrung, with 2 Herco humidifiers.
So now the results, after one month. Today I have a new saddle with 11/64Ē above the bridge. The string break angle is WAY better.
The action at the 12th fret is 6/64 on the low E, and between 4-5/64 for the high E. The guitar plays better, and sounds better as a result of the improved string break angle.
I cannot see any negative result to the condition of the guitar. I was careful to stuff plenty of rags in the body, so there are no loose braces. No damage at all.
Obviously only time will tell how well it holds up. Perhaps Iíll have to do it again in a year. But based on this experience, I have to call it a success.
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  #62  
Old 11-02-2023, 02:00 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinningfool View Post
Having read the posts describing what a horror show it can be doing a traditional neck reset on an Alvarez Yairi, I decided to try the steaming method on my DY45.
Iíll describe my process, which took one month.
I started on October 1st. At that time, I had action at the 12th fret of 8/64 and 7/64. I had only 3/64 of saddle above the bridge. My string break angle over the saddle was not good.
The guitar was playable, but there was definitely room for improvement.
I clamped the guitar, and steamed it 6 times over the next two weeks.
Using a straight edge on the neck, I made sure I had 1/4 inch above the bridge.
I left it clamped one more week, for a total of 3 weeks.
After being clamped for 3 weeks, I put the guitar in the case unstrung, with 2 Herco humidifiers.
So now the results, after one month. Today I have a new saddle with 11/64Ē above the bridge. The string break angle is WAY better.
The action at the 12th fret is 6/64 on the low E, and between 4-5/64 for the high E. The guitar plays better, and sounds better as a result of the improved string break angle.
I cannot see any negative result to the condition of the guitar. I was careful to stuff plenty of rags in the body, so there are no loose braces. No damage at all.
Obviously only time will tell how well it holds up. Perhaps Iíll have to do it again in a year. But based on this experience, I have to call it a success.
What area did you steam?
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  #63  
Old 11-02-2023, 05:03 PM
grinningfool grinningfool is offline
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Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
What area did you steam?
Inside the body where the neck and fingerboard connect to the body.
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  #64  
Old 11-06-2023, 03:35 PM
Henning Henning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinningfool View Post
Having read the posts describing what a horror show it can be doing a traditional neck reset on an Alvarez Yairi, I decided to try the steaming method on my DY45.
Iíll describe my process, which took one month. ....

...So now the results, after one month. Today I have a new saddle with 11/64Ē above the bridge. The string break angle is WAY better.
The action at the 12th fret is 6/64 on the low E, and between 4-5/64 for the high E. The guitar plays better, and sounds better as a result of the improved string break angle.
I cannot see any negative result to the condition of the guitar. I was careful to stuff plenty of rags in the body, so there are no loose braces. No damage at all.
Obviously only time will tell how well it holds up. Perhaps Iíll have to do it again in a year. But based on this experience, I have to call it a success.
Thanks for sharing this! It's encouraging and rending some hope! I'm having a Sigma, which is a Martin copy clamped for four weeks back now. I have been a little to careful when clamping it. Not doing it hard enough. The straight edge just goes a few mm above the bridge.
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  #65  
Old 11-06-2023, 07:06 PM
grinningfool grinningfool is offline
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Originally Posted by Henning View Post
Thanks for sharing this! It's encouraging and rending some hope! I'm having a Sigma, which is a Martin copy clamped for four weeks back now. I have been a little to careful when clamping it. Not doing it hard enough. The straight edge just goes a few mm above the bridge.
So keep in mind that when you string it up to full tension you will lose some or all of those few mmís. I had 1/4Ē of clearance when it was clamped, but under full string tension the straight edge is barely above the bridge.
Best of luck with your Sigma.
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  #66  
Old 11-09-2023, 11:36 AM
pcf pcf is offline
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Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
The process is mute, as the guy is in Australia, I reached out to him a few years back for pure curiosity, his process is to leave the guitar clamped for upwards of a month after steaming the neck socket lightly. He saids he has guitars come back months later and are still perfect.

I genuinely do not believe him

A guitar needs a neck reset for just one reason, its been built light enough to give volume and sustain, but not quite strong enough to maintain string tension over the body, this is just one of those things that happen when pushing the boundaries of the wood during the build process

Clamping and lightly re-steaming a neck joint does not fix this long term, short term sure, then you can unscrupulously offload the guitar to an unsuspecting buyer

Steve
Öhe is steaming the top and not the neck joint. I am not a luthier but I wouldnít think the steam is not going to get around the neck block and into the joint. I think the mechanism is to flatten the top like John Arnold said early in the thread.

I doubt anyone does this on a high end guitar and if it doesnít harm the structural integrity and fixes the playability I donít see the fuss. A traditional neck set is not a permanent solution either and many neck heels have been cracked in the process.

Itís just wood.
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  #67  
Old 11-10-2023, 08:16 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Originally Posted by pcf View Post
Öhe is steaming the top and not the neck joint. I am not a luthier but I wouldnít think the steam is not going to get around the neck block and into the joint.
The steaming is just a red herring, it does nothing, not enough heat is introduced to soften or relax the wood fibres, so its a mute point

Any advantage that is gained is gained through cold bending, that is where you force a piece of wood into a position it doesnt want to be and being left clamped for an extended period of time
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  #68  
Old 11-10-2023, 02:36 PM
grinningfool grinningfool is offline
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I seriously doubt that I would have had the results that I got if I had just clamped the guitar and not used any steam. Others are welcome to their own opinions, but I am convinced that the combination of steam and tension is what gave me the satisfactory result that I got.
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  #69  
Old 11-11-2023, 12:54 AM
kizz kizz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinningfool View Post
Having read the posts describing what a horror show it can be doing a traditional neck reset on an Alvarez Yairi, I decided to try the steaming method on my DY45.
Iíll describe my process, which took one month.
I started on October 1st. At that time, I had action at the 12th fret of 8/64 and 7/64. I had only 3/64 of saddle above the bridge. My string break angle over the saddle was not good.
The guitar was playable, but there was definitely room for improvement.
I clamped the guitar, and steamed it 6 times over the next two weeks.
Using a straight edge on the neck, I made sure I had 1/4 inch above the bridge.
I left it clamped one more week, for a total of 3 weeks.
After being clamped for 3 weeks, I put the guitar in the case unstrung, with 2 Herco humidifiers.
So now the results, after one month. Today I have a new saddle with 11/64Ē above the bridge. The string break angle is WAY better.
The action at the 12th fret is 6/64 on the low E, and between 4-5/64 for the high E. The guitar plays better, and sounds better as a result of the improved string break angle.
I cannot see any negative result to the condition of the guitar. I was careful to stuff plenty of rags in the body, so there are no loose braces. No damage at all.
Obviously only time will tell how well it holds up. Perhaps Iíll have to do it again in a year. But based on this experience, I have to call it a success.
Cool and thanks for the feedback. May I ask how long you steamed at a time? The reason is that if the steam does not do much as mirva mentions, then we know that a cold bending is at least possible and it is just as good and actually an easier job.
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  #70  
Old 11-11-2023, 02:48 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinningfool View Post
I seriously doubt that I would have had the results that I got if I had just clamped the guitar and not used any steam. Others are welcome to their own opinions, but I am convinced that the combination of steam and tension is what gave me the satisfactory result that I got.
According to your story, your guitar has been strung up now for a total of 9 days after being clamped for 3 weeks in a forced position and then a week being correctly humidified,

It is a little premature to be singing prases yet, the reason people speak highly of traditional neck resets is becuase they have been played for many years afterwards with very little issues arising.

Its one thing for a person to do it to their own guitar and sing praises about any gains they may get, a completley different scenario paying someone to do the neck reset and then critically assessing the work over the next year or ten years as after all you paid for the job
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  #71  
Old 11-11-2023, 04:20 AM
kizz kizz is offline
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Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
According to your story, your guitar has been strung up now for a total of 9 days after being clamped for 3 weeks in a forced position and then a week being correctly humidified,

It is a little premature to be singing prases yet, the reason people speak highly of traditional neck resets is becuase they have been played for many years afterwards with very little issues arising.

Its one thing for a person to do it to their own guitar and sing praises about any gains they may get, a completley different scenario paying someone to do the neck reset and then critically assessing the work over the next year or ten years as after all you paid for the job
Let's agree that this thread is not about this method vs traditional neck reset, so why keep bringing it up? it has been argued that it is a method used on instruments with e.g. epoxy glued necks and where it becomes an alternative to a traditional reset due to the difficulty of working with old epoxy. The only one singing praises here is you, the only one who has no personal experience with the method, but only bases his arguments on what you describe as "commen sence". Maybe you should listen and learn here and respect that there are people who have succeeded with other methods than the ones you have learned. Incidentally, a traditional neck reset is not rocket science and far from all last long, it is just as much about who performs them.
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  #72  
Old 11-11-2023, 05:30 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I note that this video shows this method being used on a very cheap brand, where a neck reset would probably be more costly than the instrument value.
I this case then it is justified.

I wouldn't feel happy having this done to a more expensive instrument.
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  #73  
Old 11-11-2023, 08:18 AM
grinningfool grinningfool is offline
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Originally Posted by kizz View Post
Cool and thanks for the feedback. May I ask how long you steamed at a time? The reason is that if the steam does not do much as mirva mentions, then we know that a cold bending is at least possible and it is just as good and actually an easier job.
Each time I steamed the guitar was approximately a minute. Obviously the naysayers would claim this did nothing. But I assure you, steam is freaking HOT. I held my left hand on the guitar top near the neck, and held the steamer with my right hand. The wood got quite hot each time.
I firmly believe that if I had clamped the guitar cold and not steamed it, when it was strung up to full tension it would have reverted back where it was when I started.
I just rechecked the string height today after being strung to full tension for 11 days. It hasnít budged. Will it pull back up over time ? Maybe. Probably.
Iím not going to spend 6-7 hundred dollars for a pro neck reset on a guitar that is only worth 6-7 hundred dollars.
Iím not advocating this procedure for someone with a valuable vintage instrument. Iím only documenting my experience. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Iím happy with the result that I got.
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  #74  
Old 11-11-2023, 08:37 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Originally Posted by kizz View Post
only bases his arguments on what you describe as "commen sence". Maybe you should listen and learn here and respect that there are people who have succeeded with other methods than the ones you have learned
That is absolute rubbish, you have a few views happening, those who wish to do it on their own instruments which is a hey go for it from my point of view, but not lets advocate this as the be all end all way of doing it. Thats just dreaming on most peoples parts.

those who do this on a daily basis 40hrs a week and get paid to do it and must warrant their work, will have a differing view than hey lets see if this works and how long will it hold for, my point of contention is having spoken to john is he claims to be a luthier and this is what he does to customers guitars, if this is what he does to customers guitars, then he is no luthier

You tend to come in and say hey there is another proof it works and drop my name in your response so hence the replies.

As far as an agreed method for epoxied necks etc, far from it, epoxied neck resets can be done by slipping the back, or removing the fretboard and planing a new one etc, converting to a bolt on neck etc there are many ways to do it, clamping and cold bending is not one of them
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Last edited by mirwa; 11-11-2023 at 08:46 AM.
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  #75  
Old 11-11-2023, 09:34 AM
pcf pcf is offline
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Default You are killing this thread.

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Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
That is absolute rubbish, you have a few views happening, those who wish to do it on their own instruments which is a hey go for it from my point of view, but not lets advocate this as the be all end all way of doing it. Thats just dreaming on most peoples parts.

those who do this on a daily basis 40hrs a week and get paid to do it and must warrant their work, will have a differing view than hey lets see if this works and how long will it hold for, my point of contention is having spoken to john is he claims to be a luthier and this is what he does to customers guitars, if this is what he does to customers guitars, then he is no luthier

You tend to come in and say hey there is another proof it works and drop my name in your response so hence the replies.

As far as an agreed method for epoxied necks etc, far from it, epoxied neck resets can be done by slipping the back, or removing the fretboard and planing a new one etc, converting to a bolt on neck etc there are many ways to do it, clamping and cold bending is not one of them
And I donít think anything you can say is going to sway those that are skilled enough to do this to not try it. It will likely make your day more enjoyable by walking away as well.
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