Sinker redwood - tone development? - Page 2

TomB'sox · #16 05-20-2020, 06:31 AM

Well I guess I am piling on here. My Redwood guitars seem ready to go right away. I look at is as an advantage, I did not have to wait for 2-6 months or more of playing it for it to open up and sound great. They are pretty much great from the get go.

Personally, I think they probably still improve with playing as I think all instruments do, but such a gradual small change that it is less noticable.

j. Kinnaird · #17 05-20-2020, 07:45 AM

My experience is that redwood’s tendency to open up with time is somewhere on a continuum between cedar and spruce. (Even within the spruces there is variation on that score.) Redwood is not as immediately open as cedar but seems to be more open than spruce right out of the box. There are other considerations. Lots of redwood and cedar tops have spruce braces, i know mine do, and those braces are certainly influencing the sound and They do go through a period of adjustment just like the top. If you have a redwood topped guitar built I think you will experience a guitar with more immediate openness than you might expect with a spruce top and which will also open up more with time and playing.

jazzizm · #18 12-27-2021, 03:56 PM

TOP: Sinker Redwood
BODY: EIR
FRETBOARD and BRIDGE Rocklite Ebano
sound port
SCALE: 25,4"
Schertler tuning machines.
Bird's Eye Maple bindings, Makassar (white pearl) purfling and rosette.
NECK: East African Pencil Cedar,
HEADSTOCK: EIR, inlaid w/Abalone and white pearl
Bone nut 1 13/16", spacing at the bone saddle 2 3/8".
K&K Pickup, what else?
The body is a hair deeper than a Martin OM.
case open:

full frontal:

East Indian Rosewood (high gloss surfaces are hard to photograph):

Headstock:

Schertler tuning machines:

sound port:

hand-turned Snakewood pin:

EVO on Rocklite by Bird's Eye Maple:

StringMeUp · #19 12-27-2021, 04:22 PM

That is a beauty! Enjoy it in good health!!

jazzizm · #20 12-27-2021, 04:31 PM

I had ordered the guitar two years ago and had specified a shorter scale (25"). Can you believe the guy got that wrong? Now it has a standard Martin scale. I noticed that after two or three days when I had already paid the money. He apologized multiple times, it had been a slip-up.
Sound-wise, I'm not so sure. The tone is somehow dark, the response kinda weak and stiff at the same time. Reminds me of an overbuilt Gibson. On the other hand, banging that guitar with a pick for several hours, then putting it away, then picking it up a couple of hours later, there's a diffenrence in "openness", transparency, and treble content. Then, a day or two later, it's dull again.
Also, it has a couple of "wolf notes" on the A string.

What is your experience in refining the scalloping on the braces? (They call it "spooning" over here

) Can that be a remedy for those problems? Of course, I wouldn't do it myself, I'd ask the builder to do it. I wanna love this guitar as it is quite gorgeous.

vanceen · #21 12-28-2021, 09:56 AM

I've got a redwood-topped guitar built by Steve Kinnaird. It's not sinker, it's Lucky Strike. It sounded superb from the start. Sixteen months in, it seems to sound even a little better, but not dramatically so. I know it has spruce bracing, so John Kinnaird's remarks above may apply.

I confess I find judging these changes to be challenging. Perhaps if the guitar sounds a little tight and constipated from the beginning and then opens up I could tell. This one sounded exquisite from the beginning, and now when I pick it up to play it sounds exquisite. 10% more exquisite? I can't really tell.

Guitars44me · #22 12-28-2021, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

I think what Paul meant by his statement is that it will sound more mature as soon as you get it, than a comparable spruce-topped guitar.
And I certainly hope Paul doesn't mind me speaking for him?

Uh, Paul.....?

SK

Thanks Steve. Just what I was meaning.

Cheers

Paul

nootis · #23 12-28-2021, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzizm

I had ordered the guitar two years ago and had specified a shorter scale (25"). Can you believe the guy got that wrong? Now it has a standard Martin scale. I noticed that after two or three days when I had already paid the money. He apologized multiple times, it had been a slip-up.
Sound-wise, I'm not so sure. The tone is somehow dark, the response kinda weak and stiff at the same time. Reminds me of an overbuilt Gibson. On the other hand, banging that guitar with a pick for several hours, then putting it away, then picking it up a couple of hours later, there's a diffenrence in "openness", transparence, and treble content. Then, a day or two later, it's dull again.
Also, it has a couple of "wolf notes" on the A string.

What is your experience in refining the scalloping on the braces? (They call it "spooning" over here

) Can that be a remedy for those problems? Of course, I wouldn't do it myself, I'd ask the builder to do it. I wanna love this guitar as it is quite gorgeous.

I have a sinker redwood and Brazilian SJ that looks dark and beautiful like yours. It also sounds dark to my ears, and I often wonder if my mind is telling me so because it looks so dark. However, mine is also very responsive and is great for finger style. I would think that refining the braces could help make it more responsive, but it really depends if there’s enough “meat on the bone”. Your luthier would know best.

It is quite a beautiful guitar though. I didn’t catch the name of the builder, do you mind sharing who built it?

Guitars44me · #24 12-28-2021, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird

My experience is that redwood’s tendency to open up with time is somewhere on a continuum between cedar and spruce. (Even within the spruces there is variation on that score.) Redwood is not as immediately open as cedar but seems to be more open than spruce right out of the box. There are other considerations. Lots of redwood and cedar tops have spruce braces, i know mine do, and those braces are certainly influencing the sound and They do go through a period of adjustment just like the top. If you have a redwood topped guitar built I think you will experience a guitar with more immediate openness than you might expect with a spruce top and which will also open up more with time and playing.

My experience too! Nicely put, John

A COOL YULE to all

Paul

jazzizm · #25 12-28-2021, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nootis

I have a sinker redwood and Brazilian SJ that looks dark and beautiful like yours. It also sounds dark to my ears, and I often wonder if my mind is telling me so because it looks so dark. However, mine is also very responsive and is great for finger style. I would think that refining the braces could help make it more responsive, but it really depends if there’s enough “meat on the bone”. Your luthier would know best.

It is quite a beautiful guitar though. I didn’t catch the name of the builder, do you mind sharing who built it?

His name is Andreas Köpke, he sells his guitars (and Ukes and all mando family instruments!) under the name of „Pendennis“. Oh, he‘s in Germany.
The redwood guitar is my second commission by (from? to?) him. The first one I got is a spruce/maple 00-14 which I presented here almost five years ago. It is my favorite guitar.
I will play the redwood OM (which indeed has spruce braces) for a while and then maybe contact him next spring if I still think the guitar sounds stiff.

mikealpine · #26 01-01-2022, 12:06 AM

Mine took a year or more of fairly steady playing to loosen up and give me more volume with less effort. No way to know if that’ll happen for you. Of greater concern, at least to me, is that you didn’t get the scale you paid for. I don’t know what impact that would have on the tone, but regardless, it’s a mistake. Other than the builder making you the correct guitar, I don’t know what a “fair” remedy would be.

The guitar is very pretty, by the way.

volman · #27 01-01-2022, 08:59 AM

In my experience, some sinker redwood guitars sound amazing and others sound like the guitar is stuffed with tissue paper. I think it really depends on the builder and the set of sinker redwood they decide to use. Some know what to look for in selecting a top and also know how to voice it. I think some luthiers don't have a lot of experience with sinker redwood and they pick a top that looks good and brace it like they would a cedar top when redwood can handle lighter bracing. When I decided to have a guitar built with sinker redwood, I went with Tom Doerr (RIP) because I knew he had already built some great guitars with sinker. The guitar came out great and was wonderful for fingerstyle.

jazzizm · #28 01-01-2022, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volman

In my experience, some sinker redwood guitars sound amazing and others sound like the guitar is stuffed with tissue paper. I think it really depends on the builder and the set of sinker redwood they decide to use. Some know what to look for in selecting a top and also know how to voice it. I think some luthiers don't have a lot of experience with sinker redwood and they pick a top that looks good and brace it like they would a cedar top when redwood can handle lighter bracing. When I decided to have a guitar built with sinker redwood, I went with Tom Doerr (RIP) because I knew he had already built some great guitars with sinker. The guitar came out great and was wonderful for fingerstyle.

Yeah, that’s a possibility. Mine is the first guitar he built with sinker redwood. If the wood can indeed handle lighter bracing there’s hope for improvement.