When to do major maintenance on a guitar?

[richnrbq]

Hi all,

I have Santa Cruz OM that I've had for about 16 years. I bought it used and it was built in 2000. It's a fabulous guitar and I have played the bejeezus out it. I have had it set up regularly and keep it in good condition overall. But the saddle is now low, even as the action remains excellent, and the frets feel low as well. My tech says it doesn't need a neck reset, but I can't help but feel it's lost some of its power and snap with the lesser break angle. And the frets, which have been releveled from time to time, also feel like they are worn and make for a less sure experience under my fingers.

I picked up a new Collings OM1T last summer and it too is a fabulous guitar, a really great complement to my rosewood SC OM. It's newness is making the comparison to my aging OM more striking.

The SC OM is special. It's got a beautiful, rich and complex sound. I would love to restore it to its full potential. I'd love to hear the experience of others who have similarly restored an older guitar and what the result was. I believe this guitar is worth investing in and I value the advice of others.

Thanks. I'd like to avoid Collings/Santa Cruz comparisons in this thread. Mine are both excellent and I don't think this is a case of superior building on the part of Collings. It's more about bringing an aging and wonderful instrument in it's own right back to its full self.

Thanks in advance,

Rich

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by richnrbq

The SC OM is special. It's got a beautiful, rich and complex sound. I would love to restore it to its full potential.

Say no more.

[donlyn]

When to do major maintenance on a guitar?

Rich,

Sounds like you have an excellent replacement/stand-in already in-house.

I would suggest that you start with some luthier consultations at earliest convenience. Might be a little while hashing everything out, be soonest begun, soonest done. Especially if you think you may need a second opinion.

And you know you want both instruments available asap to give you the widest possible choices for you next steps and explorations.

Don
.

Edit ==> Just noticed that "nrbq" forms the second part of your screen name. Any stories behind this?

Just being curious; new rhythym and blues quartet kind of curious.

[richnrbq]

(Responded to Don in DM)

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by richnrbq

......built in 2000. It's a fabulous guitar and I have played the bejeezus out it. I have had it set up regularly and keep it in good condition overall. But the saddle is now low, even as the action remains excellent, and the frets feel low as well. My tech says it doesn't need a neck reset, but I can't help but feel it's lost some of its power and snap with the lesser break angle. And the frets, which have been releveled from time to time, also feel like they are worn and make for a less sure experience under my fingers.

Rich

Rich: While I've got great respect for a conservative tech who doesn't try to "up sell" services, IMHO you should also respect your own thoughts about the playability and tone of your guitar. Who else knows better what you want?...and you're not a novice. After 20+ years of playin "the bejeezus out of it" (and having several fret re-levels) it's not hard to believe it needing some new frets and a new saddle perhaps to help accommodate higher new frets and give you the break angle you think you'd like. I've only had one guitar re-fretted after the board just didn't fell right to me anymore and the frets were visually low. Since I really liked the original frets, my tech replaced them with the same wire. I was VERY happy with the result.

[donlyn]

When to do major maintenance on a guitar?

Hey Rich,

Looks like you sent me your reply on message.

> "Thanks for the catch- would love to hear your Q connection and story."

Don't have that much of a story about it.

Late 60's I was attending college in the Boston area and was a DJ on the college radio station. Actually had a federal license at the time for it.

Ran an 'oldies' show on the weekends. Can you imagine an 'oldies' show in the late 60s? Mostly used material from my own collection.

Class-days were kind of anybody can host if you're free kind of thing, sometimes multiple people yakking about music and playing new stuff or favorites or requests. That kind of thing.

So one day we get this demo of NRBQ as promo 33+1/3 rpm, slip cues and all that. I listened to it and played a lot of stuff from it (first album I believe). Kind of a dis-jointed album concept but loved their music. Eddie Cochrane, yeah OK by me. C'mon Everybody. So I bought their record for myself. Later on, I saw them at one of the local venues, probably the second "Boston Tea Party" venue on Landsdowne Street with the back of the Fenway Park Green Monster across the street.

Anyway, other than listening to a lot of their music back in the day, didn't have much of a personal connection.

Boston/Cambridge has a lot of schools and had a thriving music scene including a couple of music colleges. And Music stores to match the thriving industry. Interesting book "Astral Weeks: A Secret History of 1968 by Ryan H. Walsh" details a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, including the original "Boston Tea Party" on Berkley Street, Club 47 in Cambridge, Kweskin Jug band, crazy cult on Mission Hill, and of course Van Morrison, given the title of the book. Saw a lot of new bands, including Led Zeppelin, Jeff Beck with Rod Stewart, and Cream. Also an early version of the J.Geils Band with no drummer or keyboards, and singer Peter Wolf still working as a DJ at a local album-rock radio station. Plus the still thriving local folk music scene.

Got drafted right after school, and life took some interesting turns, including an EKO Ranger XII dread 12 string, but that's another story.

Don
.

[richnrbq]

Originally Posted by gmel555

Rich: While I've got great respect for a conservative tech who doesn't try to "up sell" services, IMHO you should also respect your own thoughts about the playability and tone of your guitar. Who else knows better what you want?...and you're not a novice. After 20+ years of playin "the bejeezus out of it" (and having several fret re-levels) it's not hard to believe it needing some new frets and a new saddle perhaps to help accommodate higher new frets and give you the break angle you think you'd like. I've only had one guitar re-fretted after the board just didn't fell right to me anymore and the frets were visually low. Since I really liked the original frets, my tech replaced them with the same wire. I was VERY happy with the result.

Really helpful encouragement and perspective. Thank you!

[richnrbq]

Originally Posted by donlyn

When to do major maintenance on a guitar?

Rich,

Sounds like you have an excellent replacement/stand-in already in-house.

I would suggest that you start with some luthier consultations at earliest convenience. Might be a little while hashing everything out, be soonest begun, soonest done. Especially if you think you may need a second opinion.

And you know you want both instruments available asap to give you the widest possible choices for you next steps and explorations.

Don
.

Edit ==> Just noticed that "nrbq" forms the second part of your screen name. Any stories behind this?

Just being curious; new rhythym and blues quartet kind of curious.

Good advice- thanks, Don!

[Steve DeRosa]

[Bob Womack]

Humans are amazingly adaptable creatures. We talk about frog in the frying pan syndrome where if you throw 'em in a cool pan and then turn on the heat, they can't tell they are being cooked. It's the same with guitarists. By the time you start feeling something is wrong you've probably spent too long convincing yourself that nothing is wrong, when it is. Steve Howe's 1964 Gibson ES-175 is on its original frets, and not because it doesn't need to be re-fretted, but because Steve can't bear the idea that re-fretting it might alter it. Everyone who has touched it (and they are mighty few) testify that it is on ghost frets at this point.

Don't be that guy. Every time I've had a refret I've come away absolutely amazed by home much more comfortable the guitar became because of the refret.

Bob

[richnrbq]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Humans are amazingly adaptable creatures. We talk about frog in the frying pan syndrome where if you throw 'em in a cool pan and then turn on the heat, they can't tell they are being cooked. It's the same with guitarists. By the time you start feeling something is wrong you've probably spent too long convincing yourself that nothing is wrong, when it is. Steve Howe's 1964 Gibson ES-175 is on its original frets, and not because it doesn't need to be re-fretted, but because Steve can't bear the idea that re-fretting it might alter it. Everyone who has touched it (and they are mighty few) testify that it is on ghost frets at this point.

Don't be that guy. Every time I've had a refret I've come away absolutely amazed by home much more comfortable the guitar became because of the refret.

Bob

Really helpful, Bob, and great analogy. It's true, things go soft slowly and we do adapt. I appreciate the encouragement to refret!

[tadol]

If you really want to get the whole experience, reach out to SC and ask about getting it redone at the mothership - complete structural eval, re-surface the fretboard, re-fret, plek, new saddle and some nice new SC strings. You’ll be amazed -

But other than that, find a good tech in your area who is known for doing good re-frets and set-up, get some nice EVO frets and a new saddle. I have a couple Santa Cruz that have low saddles, sound and play great, and don’t need any neck work. I could throw some pics and measurements up, and a whole lot of “numbers” people would swear they need neck resets, but they’ve not changed in over 10 years, and what “improvement” might be noticed by having a saddle 1/16” taller would be pretty minimal. I’m waiting til they need substantially more work - probably a re-fret - and we’ll evaluate the neck situation then.

Ultimately, it’s really a question of what you want - your tech may not feel it’s necessary, but if it’s how you want to spend your money, go for it!

[Guitars44me]

When to do major maintenance on a guitar?

When you notice it, it is past time. Hahaha

Really, as Tadol says, why not have it done at SCGC and have the entire package. I would opt for new Jescar hard gold frets, after a fretboard plek, and whatever else they can do while it is there.

You already know you are going to keep it !

Paul

[jseth]

I would heartily recommend sending it to SCGC and having them bring it all back to spec for you... I've read many posts here about people who did that and were thrilled with the results.

If the guitar actually needs a neck reset, then it would be foolish to put new frets in it BEFORE the reset is completed!

Again, SCGC is going to be the final word on the neck reset issue, and you KNOW they know what they're doing!

Bite the bullet and ship the guitar to them (after making arrangements, of course). If you spend some time in conversation and develop a relationship with them, who knows? They may cut you a very good deal on all the repairs needed...

Let us know what you decide!

[Br1ck]

You should have your guitar worked on when you begin to ask these questions. If you have had a few level and crowns, new frets might be in order. If you notice the feel isn't right. it isn't right. Playable and perfect are two different things. I'm convinced clarity is lost when frets wear, but before buzz sets in. I'd get a refret and reevaluate. I've had a few level and crowns I've talked my luthier into. It has always solved the clarity issue.