When you get frustrated with the pace of your improvement, how do you manage?

[Merak]

With guitar no effort returns empty.

[fumei]

Originally Posted by TRose

Remember that “Talent” is most often simply the willingness and determination to stick with an activity through the period of time that you are not very good at it. Yes, there are prodigies, born with special abilities. But the overwhelming majority of great musicians, artists , athletes, astronauts, surgeons-name it-had to be trained and then work hard to achieve mastery. We, you and I, are wonderfully normal in that way!

Stick with it and enjoy your journey.

Best,
Tom

Double yeah on this one.

Many years ago I was visiting my mother, who BTW did not stop touring until she was 78 years old. One of the best singers I have met. I was showing her a drawing I had just about finished. She said (imagine a heavy Scots accent): "Ooooh, you are so talented. I wish I could draw."

I replied you can, if you want. How long would you work on something like this.

I would give up after 20 minutes.

Yes, well mum, this has taken more than 80 hours. I am not talented. I am just stubborn.

The same for playing guitar. You either enjoy the work (even if at times it is so frustrating you want to heave the thing into the bushes), or you don't. If you don't, eventually you will move on. Admittedly one thing that contributes to enjoying it is feeling some improvement. So when you are not improving, the danger of giving up increases.

Until that internal CLICK! happens - the click that happens when you know that playing guitar is now part of you - then the comment play more, worry less is definitely apropos. Enjoy the journey.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by fumei

Double yeah on this one.

Many years ago I was visiting my mother, who BTW did not stop touring until she was 78 years old. One of the best singers I have met. I was showing her a drawing I had just about finished. She said (imagine a heavy Scots accent): "Ooooh, you are so talented. I wish I could draw."

This reminds me of an incident I had at school around the age of 13 in a Geography class. We had previously handed in our exercise books, in which we had recently drawn a sketch map of some or other place. Now, I was no shining light at Geography or anything, but my sketch map was a work of art. The teacher, dismayed at the ham-fisted quality of many of the sketch maps, held mine up to shame their owners: "Okay, this is "ewalling's". I don't expect you to produce anything quite like this - all right, he's lucky - but you can at least try to make your maps look presentable!"

You'd think I'd be flattered, but I wasn't. "Lucky"?? I had been drawing virtually non-stop from the age of 6, gradually moving from stick men to solid forms and then perspective, and experimenting with colours and shading. The sketch map he held up was not the result of some random talent bequeathed to me by providence - it was the result of hours and hours and years and years of painstaking devotion.

People are often quick to ascribe things we can do that they can't to 'talent' or 'luck' - some intangible that excuses their own ineptitude in the field. I guess the same holds true for guitar playing: "Oh, you can play Stairway/ Yesterday/ The Entertainer/ etc. You're so lucky! You're so talented!" Yeah, right ...

[tbeltrans]

To me, it seems that the word "talent" is used to cover anything from a natural proclivity for something to displaying a skill that was earned through sheer stubbornness. In a sense, it is like using the word "Kleenex" to describe any sort of tissue or "Xerox" to refer to any sort of copy machine or "google" to do a search regardless of the actual search engine used.

Unlike these example terms though, the word "talent" does carry baggage for many of us because it can be interpreted to be discounting all the hours we put in to develop the skill being discussed. Also, it can be used (whether inadvertently or not) to dissuade a person from trying something new such as if you don't have a talent for music, why bother learning to play an instrument. Do something else instead.

Most often, when I read or hear somebody using the word "talent" it seems to be used to describe a developed skill rather than actually recognizing natural ability. We will never know if, say, Eddie Van Halen was born with a huge talent for playing guitar or if he benefited from growing up in a musical family and had a very strong desire to learn to play, though both could be true too. Regardless, he put in many years of focused attention to playing, more than most of us.

I personally don't believe the urban tales of some guy's uncle, having never had piano lessons, suddenly sitting own to the piano one day and pounding out ragtime. But, then, there are youtube videos of some 4 year kid playing advanced classical pieces. So, who knows?

Just a few thoughts...

Tony

[Horseflesh]

Originally Posted by ewalling

People are often quick to ascribe things we can do that they can't to 'talent' or 'luck' - some intangible that excuses their own ineptitude in the field. I guess the same holds true for guitar playing: "Oh, you can play Stairway/ Yesterday/ The Entertainer/ etc. You're so lucky! You're so talented!" Yeah, right ...

I'm guilty of having said things like that myself. For people who are not artistic, seeing someone who can draw, or play an instrument... It can be like seeing a wizard. It looks like magic and so it is very very easy to misunderstand the origins of the ability as magical. It also makes you feel better about your own lack of accomplishment. "Obviously I can't draw/play like that, he was lucky enough to be blessed with talent."

I have a more informed perspective now that I am learning the guitar, but it is still all too easy to think that way.

[tbeltrans]

Here is another thought...

What is the guitar in your (anybody reading this...) life?

Is the guitar a means to an end such as to get up on stage and perform, attract the attention of the opposite gender, etc.? In short, is the guitar a social vehicle for you so that the important thing is to just get to a point at which you can play well enough to achieve that end?

Or, is the guitar a personal journey, something to take time out from the rest of your life to enjoy on a daily basis, a means of enriching your life, take a break from your day? If this is the case, then progress is much lower a priority than daily fulfillment through the act of playing the guitar - the one thing that has no requirement for achievement, a goalless pursuit. The best description of this type of activity that I have read is "Mastery" by George Leonard.

These two scenarios may seem mutually exclusive, but my intention is to present two extremes as contrast, food for thought. In my own experience, I have generally been going between these two extremes, depending on the situation. I suspect that for most of us, we usually fall somewhere between these two extremes and where we are is often changing depending on the situation we find ourselves in.

At this point in my life, I much prefer to get away by myself and play for no purpose other than to enjoy the process. I really enjoy learning. Guitar in hand with a Conti video lesson or opening a fakebook and playing through a tune using my musical vocabulary, and the hours can just fall away.

When I was playing in a band, then my time with the guitar was all about productivity and progress was very important because I had to be able to fit in with what the group was doing, especially when it was how I made my living.

I find it interesting that when any pressure to produce is removed, my progress seems to become much more consistent as seemingly a byproduct of just enjoying the guitar in a relaxed manner. I am focused more now than at anytime except when I was playing in a band and always had specific reasons to pick up the guitar.

My suggestion in thinking about these things early this morning is when we get frustrated with our progress, we examine why we are doing this in the first place. Have we lost sight of what attracted us to the guitar in the first place? Has it become a chore and something we no longer enjoy?

I find that I enjoy playing the guitar most when I have a clear idea of what it is I enjoy the most, and then stay focused on that. Up until recently, I kept hopping from one thing to another musically and was often frustrated because I felt I wasn't getting anywhere.

When I played in bands, this wasn't a problem because the band pretty much dictated what was needed to focus on. But on my own, I was always hopping from this style to that, using this guitar and then that one. I finally made a decision as to what interested me most and since then, I have settled into a nice steady and comfortable routine and progress has become a nice byproduct of that.

It is not necessary for me to play for anybody else, post videos of my playing, or anything outside of my picking up the guitar each day for my own enjoyment. That is a very comfortable place to be.

Tony

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

... It is not necessary for me to play for anybody else, post videos of my playing, or anything outside of my picking up the guitar each day for my own enjoyment. That is a very comfortable place to be.

Tony

Very interesting thoughts, Tony. I think you are very unusual in ^^that way^^ -- and I mean that in a good way. Sort of a pure musician without any expectations from others.

Over the years I have bumped into many guys who were once in bands who said they had been guitar players but who hadn't touched a guitar in years. I always wondered, "So, why did you learn to play in the first place? Just to be in a band, to get girls, or what?"

Me, I learned to play because I simply love to make music. I really need to get back to it. I've taken a break for too long.

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

... I find that I enjoy playing the guitar most when I have a clear idea of what it is I enjoy the most, and then stay focused on that. Up until recently, I kept hopping from one thing to another musically and was often frustrated because I felt I wasn't getting anywhere. ...

Your comments about focusing your efforts are also well taken.

- Glenn

[Nymuso]

Been playing so long that it's difficult to recall the experience of initial learning. But I suspect I never worried about my lack of progress because I did not dwell on what I could not (yet) do. I took pride in what I could do. I knew there were things just around the corner - there still are, and always will be - but I knew I would go around that corner at some point. In the meantime I enjoyed the skills I had acquired to date.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Very interesting thoughts, Tony. I think you are very unusual in ^^that way^^ -- and I mean that in a good way. Sort of a pure musician without any expectations from others.

Over the years I have bumped into many guys who were once in bands who said they had been guitar players but who hadn't touched a guitar in years. I always wondered, "So, why did you learn to play in the first place? Just to be in a band, to get girls, or what?"

Me, I learned to play because I simply love to make music. I really need to get back to it. I've taken a break for too long.



Your comments about focusing your efforts are also well taken.

- Glenn

Thanks for the kind comments Glenn. I did work full time as an AF of M union musician constantly on the road back in the late 70s as I have mentioned around here in other posts. Then in later years, I have played in a few band situations.

But I have reached a point in which I simply want to explore music making on my own. I recall my own complaining in posts here some years back about the fact that most people don't much care for solo instrumental guitar and prefer that you sing. I have never had the desire to sing and have come around to accepting that people are not interested in what I have to play unless I sing.

Funny thing about singing vs playing, Nat King Cole wanted only to play jazz piano. However, in order to get gigs he had to sing and he did famously well at it, but his piano playing took a back seat his entire career.

Anyway, I find that I enjoy the process of learning more about music on the guitar than I would continuing to perform. This is one reason that I have come around to focusing on what is often called chord melody. I find it endlessly fascinating to study harmony and find new (to me) ways to harmonize the same melodies. For me, it is like solving puzzles and is endlessly fascinating.

In past years around here when conversations came up about the guitar and performing, there were those who expressed the sense that anyone playing guitar should be performing, that this is really what music is all about. My take was always that it depends on the person and that music means different things to different people. It is perfectly OK to not have to post videos or recordings of one's playing. Nobody has to prove him or herself or otherwise justify playing the guitar. We can all relax and do with it as we see fit.

When I was on the road as a musician, I often met people in various towns who really played well, but were never interested in getting up in front of people to show their stuff. They were perfectly content to have a "normal" job and life and use music to simply and their own richness to that life. I was impressed enough by such folks that I never forgot that idea.

Tony

[jp2558]

About two years ago, I found a good three finger fingerpicking lesson of Dust In The Wind. Over this past winter whenever I'd play at home, I'd play DITW for five minutes straight. Six months later that skill transferred easily to Dear Prudence. Then came Behind Blue Eyes. Before then I could only two finger fingerpick Blackbird. Bonus is Desperado, and When I'm Sixty Four. I never expected that DITW would help me become a fingerpicker to the degree I've reached.

My advice is pick something that's not your first interest, but intriguing enough to motivate you to play it (slide, alternate tunings etc), and see where it leads you.

[FOG01]

Originally Posted by Horseflesh

I know that I am making progress, but I am unreasonably self-critical and picky which does not help. My instructor keeps telling me, "you're honestly doing well, try to have fun, relax, drink a beer if you gotta," but that is hard advice to take when I only ever see the next hurdle, not what I have already accomplished.

Sounds like good advice to me. Golf is much the same.....

[Steve DeRosa]

It never ceases to amaze me just how much better I sound after a wee dram or three :

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by FOG01

Sounds like good advice to me. Golf is much the same.....

Funny thing about golf is that when I was working full time, those among who golfed seemed to be pissed off and frustrated whenever the subject of golf came up. Apparently, they weren't progressing as well as they would have liked I suppose. I didn't see that among people with other hobbies such as music, martial arts, chess, pool or bowling leagues, etc.

Tony