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Old 04-14-2018, 05:42 PM
Matt.S Matt.S is offline
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Default Amp Overload! (Modeling Options: Marshall Code v Fender Mustang etc.)

Hello everyone!

I recently started to shop for amps. I have considered Combos and Head + Cabinet set ups. The modeling amps really interest me as I do not quite know what sound I am looking for being new to playing electric (I just recently received an Epiphone Les Paul standard). I have played the Code, Katana and Mustang. I liked the Katana but not as much as the more customizable Code and Mustang.

I went in to GC yesterday to play the Mustang Gt-100 and the Code 50; it seems the Code 100 is not available yet which was a bummer as I really wanted to compare equal watt amps and the 2x12 vs 1x12 on the other options seems like a winner. To that point the Fender states it is a Celestion 12” where the Marshall doesn’t specify; anyone know of speaker quality differences? Anyway I ended up leaving with the Code 50 as I was leaning toward the Marshall and while the Fender sounded better I felt the Marshall needed fine tuning. I think it is said the Fender has better presets.

I took the Code 50 home and made my own preset. Wow! I am blown away. I can’t side by side it to the Fender but what I’ve created is similar but better to what I liked in the Fender. Anyway here is the conundrum: I really think I am going to go upgrade to the Code 100 when available but one of the things that is lost seems to be plug in or out options found on the Fender (XLR etc.) This made me wonder about maybe getting the Code 100H (Head) with the Code 212 or some other 2x12 Cabinet. Comes in at $50 more but I think it would allow more flexibility than the Fender (I am unsure if the 100H has different outputs, I will edit).

TLDR; I can’t decide between the Marshall Code 100 v Fender Mustang. 2x12 vs 1x12. Speaker quality differences? Flexibility in gigging and recording options via outputs etc.

Thanks!
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Old 04-14-2018, 06:40 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Sorry if this is just my misunderstanding you, but I can't quite make what your criteria are, and my sense is that may be because you don't know either.

I've often thought that modeling/modeling amps could be a interesting way to see what kind of sound works best for you, particularly once you decode what the various emulations are emulating. That part I understand, that that seems to be one of your goals.

The rest is hard for me to grasp.

I have not used any of the models you are considering. I'm a happy user of an older Mustang III and have used various kinds of modeling (boxes, amps, and software-only solution hosted by DAWs) for recording.

With modeling amps, speakers are often paired with the modeling to emulate the sound of different amps speaker types. To a certain degree they rely on the chips and software rather than the physical magnets and cone types. And when using a direct out to record or go to the PA, the physical speakers are then unimportant.

You also seem to be discovering a universal factor with all modeling: the presets tend to be overdone. They have a tendency to show all the bells and whistles they can do to caricature some famous artist or songs signature timbres. And even with a "real amp" with none of the modeling stuff, different guitars in different rooms will benefit with tweaking the knobs--and nothing about modeling means that goes away--if anything the things that may need to be adjusted increases.

In this area this is what I suggest. Find out how to select an amp model with none of the built in effects. Pick one or two of these basic amp models that intrigue you, and work with your guitar, your room, and your ears to tune a basic preset to suit you. Work with these one or two presets, though you can feel free to drop one and change to another if you feel you've made a wrong choice. Add effects sparingly. Only move on to the other model choices your amp offers after you feel you've mastered the initial one or two.

Hope some of that helps.
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2018, 07:48 PM
Matt.S Matt.S is offline
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Default Amp Overload! (Modeling Options: Marshall Code v Fender Mustang etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Sorry if this is just my misunderstanding you, but I can't quite make what your criteria are, and my sense is that may be because you don't know either...

Being new to this I have no idea between all the different types. The Code has numerous options available to emulate different types of amps and cabinets. When I first brought the Code home I immediately started to create my own preset by going barebones and starting with the amp and cabinet then adding in effects to taste. My favorite amp is the Classic JVM and my favorite cab combo was the 1936 Vintage 2x12. I then added in a compressor, Spring reverb and a light delay. It’s quite amazing.

Not sure what non modeling amp would be capable of this sound. Or what it would cost to create the set up in a traditional head and cab rig. I looked up a JVM and it is A LOT more expensive than the Code. I’m more so looking for opinions on amps / Peoples opinions on modeling or non / combo vs head and cab.
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:39 AM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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I bought a Marshall Code 25 combo a few months ago.
I used to have a Fender Mustang 1 (first edition) and the Marshall is certainly an improvement on the older Fender. I also have experience of using software guitar amp simulation eg. Logic Pro X and Waves GTR3.

First off I never use presets. They are nearly all overblown and seem to impress beginners mostly. I build up a sound from scratch with just the amp and speaker model and then add FX if I'm happy with the basic sound and want those effects.

Just wondering why you are after a 100 watt version? The obvious answer would be that you gig with a loud drummer, is that the case?

The Marshall Code series do pack some great tones but here are a few negatives:

I find the FX are so-so. Not terrible but not as good or flexible as a load of quality pedals. Also there is some bleeding of the effects sounds sometimes.
Also I think the FX are mono including reverb, delays, chorus etc. That surprised me.

The amp responds quite well to guitar volume changes. One thing I noticed was when playing a low note on the bottom E string with some distortion present, if I let that note decay completely the note never cleaned up like I would expect.

I like the phone app, it is no gimmick but bear in mind that Marshall Code amps can lock up and stop making a sound, until you power cycle them.
Not good for a gig. Mine has locked up twice since I bought it but other people have also reported it.

I really like the compactness of my Code 25 and the fact that is has a 10 inch speaker. It is plenty loud enough for practice use.

After I bought the Marshall I still ordered a Tweed Champ clone kit because I just love that type of simple valve amp. Still have to build it though.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:40 PM
Matt.S Matt.S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1960 View Post

Just wondering why you are after a 100 watt version? The obvious answer would be that you gig with a loud drummer, is that the case?



After I bought the Marshall I still ordered a Tweed Champ clone kit because I just love that type of simple valve amp. Still have to build it though.


The purpose of the 100 watt is that I like to buy things once. Meaning I would rather spend money now on an amp I can use for multiple purposes vs a practice amp and later a gigging amp. This is also the hang up in wondering if the Code is the right choice. I’ve consider upping my budget to $600 which would allow for a Code head and half stack or a Fender Mustang Gt-200 for the outputs and two celestian speakers plus a loop option.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:29 PM
Matt.S Matt.S is offline
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Yeah... this escalated quickly. I like the idea of the Modelling amps but I realize the limitations already - pedals, specifically looping. Also all the effects and presets are great but I really only use the amp and cab that I mentioned, not too big on the others.

Anyway just as an update I’m shopping for Tube heads and a cab. So far the Marshall DSL15 is on the list. Trying to find others.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:05 PM
hotroad hotroad is offline
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I have the new Mustang and love it to death. You can really create just about any tone you want with all the digital settings. No need for pedals with this one.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:45 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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Yep, my Fender Mustang fulfils most of my needs plus I can play quietly using headphones. (Doesn't matter that I don't use all the effect and amp settings).

Having said that, a Fender Blues Junior tube amp is on my wish list so I can eventually have the best of both worlds.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:36 AM
Woodstock School Of Music Woodstock School Of Music is offline
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Just giving you a heads up that you might want to take a look at the Fender forums concerning the Mustang GT. I bought one when they came out and it's kind of a mess compared to the Mustang III I own.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:16 AM
perttime perttime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt.S View Post
...

Anyway just as an update I’m shopping for Tube heads and a cab. So far the Marshall DSL15 is on the list. Trying to find others.
Where do you want to play?
I have a DSL1 combo and it is a little too loud for my bedroom playing. I suspect that the speaker is a little muffled at low settings, so I need to turn it up a bit to get it sounding good.

My other bedroom solution is a Blackstar preamp, with speaker emulation, plugged into a good set of computer speakers. A studio monitor might be even better with a preamp. Those preamps can equally well feed big powered speakers, big amps, or PA systems.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:09 AM
ClaptonWannabe2 ClaptonWannabe2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The dman View Post
Just giving you a heads up that you might want to take a look at the Fender forums concerning the Mustang GT. I bought one when they came out and it's kind of a mess compared to the Mustang III I own.
Can you elaborate? I own a Mustang 3 and wouldnot mind having a GT. I was going to post something, so I will just ask here. At GC the other day I blew the place up! Just a Gibson LP plugged into a Mustang GT (its the 100 watt model) I dialed through some setting noodling and a pop and a ROAR from the amp. I had not hit a string and I had the volume on a "3" tops. This thing went off with a distorted static sound that was peak volume. Harsh sound like a bad output jack but continuous. Turned it off and on and it was fine. Output jack seemed fine as did the amp input jack, just by twisting and jiggling the cable around. Is this a known issue with Mustang GTs?
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:32 PM
tippy5 tippy5 is offline
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For bedroom use there are a lot of options. For serious gigging get your signature sound ( try a few loud amps ) and a pedal board.

I am very intrigued with the Mustang indeed. I really like this Boss amp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPcneYWbhZY&t=129s

I am old, 62, so I am stuck happily in the tube, Fender flavor, sound that sounds good @ bedroom volumes. I have a Tone King Meteor 20 and a vintage Fender PR (Silverface). I like warm, Multidimensional, darker amps.
I wish I could do the Soldano 100, or a real AC 30 VOX , or... so many gig level, insane tones. There should be an amp website for renting for a few months.

I also play plugins and cab stuff with my Apogee/Abelton capture computer.

But I am tempted to try the BOSS type amp. I could sell a lot of pedals and amps go on a vacation and not miss much tone wise these days.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:35 AM
swsman swsman is offline
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I have owned Mustang III V2 for a few years now, been happy with it. Don't use all of the presets, typically stay around 3 for home playing. Do not gig so cannot help you there, I know there was a member here that gigged with the same amp.

Usually I will take my own guitar into the store and pick what sounds good with it - this might simplify your choice.

Modelers have their place, still not a substitute for a good tube amp, had a Marshall Class 5 head/speaker and that thing was a beast, on the lookout for a good Blues Jr at present.
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