#16
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Your para 2 - The song is Speak Softly, Love (aka Godfather theme) by Nino Rota. As written in G, played in 1st position (b and e = open strings), 1st 12 notes: b e g | #f e g e #f e c d | b As written in G, played starting the first two notes on at 9th fret, D and G strings: (same as above) Played starting 1st 2 notes on 7th fret, D and G strings: a d f | e d f e d #a c | a Played starting 1st 2 notes on 5th fret, D and G strings: g c #d |d c #d c d c #g #a | g Played starting 1st 2 notes on 3rd fret, D and G strings: f #a #c | c #a #c #a c #a #f #g | f Re: "Doesn't sound right": I started the song from the same frets, but on the A/D strings, then on the E/A strings, and should correct my earlier observation that it doesn't sound like the song. The song is recognizable, but the same pattern played from those strings sounds distinctly unpleasant and discordant, which was not the case when played from the first position (open strings for 1st 2 notes), or the middle strings at multiple locations, as described. Thanks for your interest and help with getting me over this hurdle. |
#17
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Jeff, I hate the word "awesome" as appropriated by kids today, but I'll use it for you. Thanks so much for putting that together - I'll be watching that several more times, at least. I understood it on the walk-through, but I want to work through it physically to get a true feel for those relationships. I get the musical v. physical space thing, and it answers one of my original questions about how the same thing can be played elsewhere on different notes (except, apparently, if the B string is involved, due to tuning, so I need to think about that one).
I also get that, played elsewhere via different notes, the song is necessarily in a different key, though I still need to work through Erithon's heady info re: how to determine the key, as I may have exceeded my grey matter quotient for the day. This is exciting stuff. Thanks again. |
#18
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As you think about all this stuff, I find that actually writing out the 12 notes on paper, C, C#, D, Eb, ... all the way up to Bb, B and visually seeing where the note you just played is and where you are going to, helps to know the interval. And as long as you are playing the same intervals, regardless of where start, as long as you are mindful of going to and from the B string, your song should sound like the song. Anyway, all this was said already. I'm going to use this as an exercise today when I go home and do my practice and see what you are doing. Hopefully I can come back with something helpful. |
#19
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#20
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Also, your notation doesn't give what string/fret you are playing to play the note you think you are playing... because you may not be playing the notes you think you are. If you want to do this, you have to provide better notation. For example taking this particular run Quote:
So, if you are saying note 1 (F) and note 2 (A#) is played on the 3rd fret of D and G string, then I would notate it this way. Note1: 3D Note2: 3G And indeed, 3D is the note F. And 3G is the note A#. But not knowing where you are playing the other notes, we don't know if you are playing the notes you says you are. It's gonna be crazy to write this out for all your runs, so if you really want to work this out, write it out for the run that doesn't sound right. As I said in the previous reply, I'm gonna try to play this later tonight and see if we can get somewhere. |
#21
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I think I'm getting more comfortable with this concept, but if you're curious about the pattern, here's what I did for the 12 note run: Following example assumes starting on 7th fret, but pattern is the same regardless of which where you start on the D/G strings (using 1st 2 notes as your start point on those strings). 1st note - A on the D string. 2nd note - D on the G string. 3rd note - drop to next closest treble string (B) and go down 1 fret, play that note (F on B string, in case of 7th fret start point). 4th note - same string, go down 1 more fret, play that note (A# on B string). 5th note - same string/fret as 2d note (eg, if at 7th fret, 5th note is D on G string). 6th note - same note as 3rd note. 7th note - same as 5th (2nd) note. 8th note - same as 4th (3rd) note. 9th note - same as 5th note 10th note - F on the A string (8th fret) 11th note - C on the G string (5th fret) 12th note - A on the D string (7th fret) (this is also the 1st note) Hope that works! As for the bad-sounding version, simply play that same pattern starting on the A/D strings (instead of the D/G strings), and E/A strings - yuk. |
#22
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Alright... so it goes back to your understanding of the B string. Your notation is still kind confusing but I played enough to know where you are getting messed up. It starts to go bad on the 3rd note, right? When you start the song on the 7th fret D string, the sequence of the notes are, Note 1: 7th fret D string (A) Note 2: 7th fret G string (D) Note 3: 6th fret B string (F) Ok, that sounds like the first 3 notes of God Father. Now, play the same pattern starting from the 7th fret A string Note 1: 7th fret A string (E) Note 2: 7th fret D string (A) Note 3: 6th fret G string (C#) No, that doesn't sound like God Father. Instead, play the 5th fret of the G string (C) for Note 3, and that's God Father. And this has to do with being aware of the intervals between Note 1 and Note 2, and again between Note 2 and Note 3. In order for the song to sound right, the interval between Note 1 and Note 2 has to be 5 semitones (5 frets) apart. And the interval between Note 2 and Note 3 has to be 3 semitones (3 frets) apart, regardless of where you start Note 1. The pattern that you played (when the B string was involved) was a pattern that facilitated these intervals. But you can not play the same pattern when you shifted strings. That pattern, starting from the A string is doing 5 semitones, and 4 semitones. As you noticed, you had to play the 5th fret. That's where the 3rd note is in that pattern that is 3 semitones away from the previous. Last edited by RockyRacc00n; 02-13-2018 at 09:54 PM. |
#23
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Not trying to be an ***, but if you want to understand this, time to put the guitar down, grab a $50 keyboard and a copy of "music theory for dummies"
All this 10 paragraph, position talk and "how many frets" apart is guitar xentric. Music is not. And don't take the title of that book as insulting, it's excellent. |
#24
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Haha seems I got over zealous with explaining this. ChrisN, hope you are on your way to understand this. Otherwise cut the B string out from your guitar. |
#25
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No really, your explanation is fine, but if we talked in terms of music and not fret positions, these answers could be 5 words instead of 5 paragraphs.
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#26
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Thanks to all for the helpful input. |
#27
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Also, knowing how to post a melody in tab would help! (Bracket the text in code tags, # button in advanced reply window.) Here's the first phrase of the theme, in the key you're playing it in (D minor, like the original):
Code:
E-------|----------------|--- B-----6-|5---6---5-------|--- G---7---|--7---7---7---5-|--- D-7-----|------------8---|7-- A-------|----------------|--- E-------|----------------|--- Code:
-------|----------------|--- -------|----------------|--- -----5-|4---5---4-------|--- ---7---|--7---7---7---5-|--- -7-----|------------8---|7-- -------|----------------|--- This - as you may now realise - is because the G and B strings on guitar are tuned a different interval apart from the other strings. They are a "major 3rd" (4 frets) apart, while the other pairs (E-A, A-D, D-G, B-E) are all a perfect 4th apart (5 semitones/frets). The interval between the 2nd and 3rd notes of the tune is a "minor 3rd" = 3 semitones (frets). So - in the first example - to get the 3rd note on the B string, you take account of the 4-semitone difference between the strings, and drops back 1 fret. In the second example, the 3rd note is on the G string. This string is tuned 5 semitones higher than the D string, so the note has to drop back 2 frets. Get it? Try playing the tune like this (back in D minor), it may help to understand how it works (index finger on fret 7 now). 10th fret on the G string is the same note as 6th fret on the B string. Code:
--------|------------------|---- --------|------------------|---- ---7-10-|9-7-10-7-9-7------|---- -7------|-------------8-10-|7--- --------|------------------|---- --------|------------------|---- Code:
--------|-----------------|---- --------|-----------------|---- -2-7-10-|9-7-10-7-9-7-3-5-|2---- --------|-----------------|--- --------|-----------------|---- --------|-----------------|---- A D F E D F D E D Bb C A The guitar could be tuned all in perfect 4ths - EADGCF - which would make the patterns across the strings all the same (so you would not have been asking your original question ). However - although a small minority of guitarists do tune that way - it that makes other things - such as some chord shapes - more difficult. Of course none of us would have this trouble if we'd decided to learn PIANO instead!
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. Last edited by JonPR; 02-15-2018 at 08:48 AM. |
#28
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I learned to read notation, but have only just started looking at TAB. Your post shows "/code" on both ends of your TAB excerpts - is that a choice on the Advanced menu for posting here? Or something you inserted from another media/venue/program? |
#29
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An aside, although I learned looking first at a keyboard, I've since decided that there's no reason it can't be taught first on guitar if we get away from the "put your hands in this shape to form a chord" form of teaching and teach, instead, the pattern of intervals across the strings in the tuning we use. Possibly a different discussion, though.
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"Militantly left-handed." Lefty Acoustics Martin 00-15M Taylor 320e Baritone Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten) Last edited by SunnyDee; 02-15-2018 at 02:54 PM. |
#30
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As I said, the # button above the reply window enters opening and closing CODE tags. Anything you type (or paste from elsewhere) between them appears in proportional font. Or select the text and then hit #. BTW, well done on learning notation before tab! I did the same, although that was a long long time ago.... Tab didn't exist back then (except in old lute notation).
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |