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  #31  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
TerryAllanHall TerryAllanHall is offline
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My interest in Rainsongs is as an acceptable-sounding guitar that can survive airline travel and differing environments, so I can leave my Guilds at home.

While they're not cheap, for what I've paid in the past for repairing airline mishandlings and such, as well as mental anguish, they're a decent bargain.

Still getting used to their appearence, though.
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  #32  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:03 PM
Rymahoneyrymaho Rymahoneyrymaho is offline
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I'm a younger guy just starting out and the look is half the reason I want one. The other half is durability. 2 young children I don't trust around a 2000 dollar wood guitar. Now if I could just try all the models. I want one that is slightly smaller than my dread but still versatile. I mainly focus on country music.
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  #33  
Old 01-02-2013, 06:32 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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If you are looking for smaller than a dread and versatile you may want to try a Rainsong WS1000. You can find these in stores. You really need to play some. You can join MacNickle' road trip and for $35 you can try the Emerald X20-OS for a week. It is their newest model and looks very interesting. I will have it for a week this month. Good luck
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:35 AM
The Colonel The Colonel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac View Post
FYI, there was no intent to "fool" anyone. I did an ultra quick search and chose a couple of videos by a professional who uses carbon fiber guitars, which is what the OP was asking for. I stated there were better videos out there, hoping he would do his own search and make up his own mind.

Everyone knows you listen to YouTube videos with a grain of salt. Still, if you listen to many and if you can find those where guitars are compared side by side with the same equipment, even YouTube videos can be very useful for someone with no access to the guitars.

I was just trying to help him get started, not trying to deceive. Sorry this made you defensive.

BTW, even though he does use amplification when he performs (hopefully not a big surprise to anyone), I believe the guitar does have "some" role to play in the sound he produces. It's not all smoke and mirrors as the focus of your comment seems to imply. There are a Rainsong owners that have mostly abandoned wood guitars for a reason.

And no, I do not own a Rainsong. I just wanted to be helpful.
Sorry, but you are the one who's defensive. I didn't accuse you of intending to deceive anyone. I gave the OP information about Wilcox's Rainsong that wouldn't have been readily available to him. Nor was I implying that Rainsongs are all smoke and mirrors; I have considered buying one myself. All I tried to do was warn the OP that Wilcox is VERY particular about how his guitar sounds, using three-band e.q. on EACH of the pickups or mics in his guitar, so that the sound he gets plugged in may not be representative of the sound of the guitar acoustically, which may be very good, indeed.

To quote Sgt Hulka in "Stripes," "Lighten up, Francis!"
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  #35  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:45 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Wilcox does have a lot f equipment, isn't there a rule your pickup systems should not cost more than your guitar? LOL
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  #36  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:55 AM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed422 View Post
It is a personal matter... none of the advantages have to do with how it sounds. It is all about how it is possible to be less careful with the guitar. It's possible to play them in the rain. To each their own, when it rains, I'm going inside. I am interested... I continue trying them.

Ed
Do you like the way your X7-OS sounds? Do you end up playing it as much as your wood guitars, or does it just sit in the case? Do you only play it in the rain?

It seems like your opinion of CF guitars is somewhat negative, so I'm curious what made you decide to purchase one.
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  #37  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:57 AM
ChunkyB ChunkyB is offline
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Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
Wilcox does have a lot f equipment, isn't there a rule your pickup systems should not cost more than your guitar? LOL
At least he has less equipment than he did back in the day with his custom Rainsong with the individual midi pickup in the bridge for each string.
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  #38  
Old 01-02-2013, 09:34 AM
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Wilcox in the video touting his signature Rainsong model even jokes that "it's a 12-step program" to get away from combining multiple pick-up types in the never-ending quest to get the perfect amplified sound. James Taylor has the same addiction -- and I've seen him switch Olsons mid-concert because he didn'tl like the way the PA system was amplifying his guitar.
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  #39  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:55 AM
Ed422 Ed422 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChunkyB View Post
Do you like the way your X7-OS sounds? Do you end up playing it as much as your wood guitars, or does it just sit in the case? Do you only play it in the rain?

It seems like your opinion of CF guitars is somewhat negative, so I'm curious what made you decide to purchase one.
It sounds better than I expected. One issue is that it sounds and feels better with medium strings, but that screws up the relief. The result is higher action than I want. It also feels better with the added tension of heavier than light strings. With lights the strings are floppier than I like. There is also the issue of the 'whap' sound on the down strum. It seems to me, it is the strings hitting the hollow resin and carbon neck that makes the sound. If I alter the way I play enough, I can get rid of 70% of that, but I wonder if I want to alter my playing that much. In the end, even altering my playing, my wood guitars sound much (I want to say better, but Ill stick with) more like what I want. FWIW, I have heard the same sound in recordings others have posted and I have never heard this sound from any of my wood guitars. I have been going through sets of strings to see if I can get what I want out of it sound wise. So far, not successfully. If you read what I said, you'd know I go inside when it rains.

I bought it with high hopes. The 24" scale and 1 3/4' nut seem to be my comfort match. It does indeed feel great; the scale, nut width, and neck profile are very comfortable. But feel isn't enough... it's got to sound good too. It will likely be in the classifieds soon.

Ed
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  #40  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:15 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
Wilcox does have a lot f equipment, isn't there a rule your pickup systems should not cost more than your guitar? LOL
That's why he has an Olson.
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  #41  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:08 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
That's why he has an Olson.
That is funny!
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:54 PM
Alistair Hay Alistair Hay is offline
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This is an interesting thread and is certainly reminiscent of the standard perceptions out there.
Firstly when we build Carbon guitars we are not trying to convert the world and replace wooden guitars. I love wooden guitars way too much to even try that. I am just creating an alternative.
I build guitars from Carbon because I am a guitar enthusiast and a composites expert and those 2 worlds married together to create Emerald guitars. Composite construction is the medium that came naturally to me and the more I delved into it I realized I could build a pretty decent guitar from the stuff.
Physics does not dictate that a wood guitar sounds like a Wood guitar and a Carbon guitar sounds like a Carbon guitar, Im sure we all know how much variation of tone that can be achieved with wood and the same is true with composite construction.( I use the word composite here because all the builders use more than carbon in their guitars although carbon is generally the majority constituent.)
What dictates a guitars tone is how it converts the strings energy into vibrations and in turn into sound. Its the vibrational properties of the entire guitar that create its tone and in my opinion that opens the possibility of using lots of different materials to create very fine musical instruments some of which may sound very much traditional and some with a whole new voice.
I think we all have a tonal bench mark in our heads which has been created by our past listening and playing experiences but that doesnt mean its the perfect tone rather just the perfect tone for you.
I definitely have yet to make the perfect guitar from a tonal stand point as I dont believe such a thing exists but I feel very privileged that I regularly get emails from customers saying I built their perfect guitar although I know in other hands it may be far from perfect.
Its this unattainable goal that makes guitar building so addictive and also so frustrating but it certainly gives us lots to talk about.
A couple of points I would like to correct... Our Moulding system does not involve moulding with foam that I dissolve rather its a resin infusion process that I have developed over the last 14 years and thats all I really say about the technology for obvious reasons.
Our moulds are not built from Aluminum but are made from highly specialised composite materials that have been carefully chosen to give the highest degree of thermal and dimensional stability. We also build our moulds in house allowing us to have full control over specifications and also give us the ability to make modifications where required without huge costs.
We have a very different approach to moulding and we are not fixed to exact mould specifications, We often put inserts into our moulds to change neck profiles and can even adapt the mouldings quite alot after the moulding process to create some very interesting custom guitars.
Another point I would like to comment on is the picture of the Blackbird mould. I am only speaking from what I see in the picture and this is not a mould, rather what I see is a CNC router creating a model which possibly could be used for 3 dimensional R&D evaluation or as a form from which a composite or even metal mould could be created.
Actually the moulds are not really relevant here, its how they are used is the important part.
Alistair Hay
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:03 PM
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Acousticado Acousticado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Guitars View Post
This is an interesting thread and is certainly reminiscent of the standard perceptions out there.
Firstly when we build Carbon guitars we are not trying to convert the world and replace wooden guitars. I love wooden guitars way too much to even try that. I am just creating an alternative.
I build guitars from Carbon because I am a guitar enthusiast and a composites expert and those 2 worlds married together to create Emerald guitars. Composite construction is the medium that came naturally to me and the more I delved into it I realized I could build a pretty decent guitar from the stuff.
Physics does not dictate that a wood guitar sounds like a Wood guitar and a Carbon guitar sounds like a Carbon guitar, Im sure we all know how much variation of tone that can be achieved with wood and the same is true with composite construction.( I use the word composite here because all the builders use more than carbon in their guitars although carbon is generally the majority constituent.)
What dictates a guitars tone is how it converts the strings energy into vibrations and in turn into sound. Its the vibrational properties of the entire guitar that create its tone and in my opinion that opens the possibility of using lots of different materials to create very fine musical instruments some of which may sound very much traditional and some with a whole new voice.
I think we all have a tonal bench mark in our heads which has been created by our past listening and playing experiences but that doesnt mean its the perfect tone rather just the perfect tone for you.
I definitely have yet to make the perfect guitar from a tonal stand point as I dont believe such a thing exists but I feel very privileged that I regularly get emails from customers saying I built their perfect guitar although I know in other hands it may be far from perfect.
Its this unattainable goal that makes guitar building so addictive and also so frustrating but it certainly gives us lots to talk about.
A couple of points I would like to correct... Our Moulding system does not involve moulding with foam that I dissolve rather its a resin infusion process that I have developed over the last 14 years and thats all I really say about the technology for obvious reasons.
Our moulds are not built from Aluminum but are made from highly specialised composite materials that have been carefully chosen to give the highest degree of thermal and dimensional stability. We also build our moulds in house allowing us to have full control over specifications and also give us the ability to make modifications where required without huge costs.
We have a very different approach to moulding and we are not fixed to exact mould specifications, We often put inserts into our moulds to change neck profiles and can even adapt the mouldings quite alot after the moulding process to create some very interesting custom guitars.
Another point I would like to comment on is the picture of the Blackbird mould. I am only speaking from what I see in the picture and this is not a mould, rather what I see is a CNC router creating a model which possibly could be used for 3 dimensional R&D evaluation or as a form from which a composite or even metal mould could be created.
Actually the moulds are not really relevant here, its how they are used is the important part.
Alistair Hay
Very interesting, Alistair. Thanks! Although I don't yet own one of your creations, you know I'm lusting for one model in particular. Visually and technologically, I love the pieces you're creating. You're a breath of fresh air in the luthier world!
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:15 PM
patchmcg patchmcg is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueBird2 View Post
Does anybody know which model he is playing? Ok sorry for sone reason, I was thinking Ovation were CF. As far on Ovation, am I in a wrong section then? opps.
It's a Custom Legend, nice guitars, but not CF. Considering the age of the video, it could be hand-laid fiberglass though. I have a couple of O's with that bowl, and it makes quite a difference in weight and tone.

A little but of trivia, in the 90's when it was actually still run by a Kaman, Ovation tried to launch a CF line of guitars known as the Q line. They managed to build a few, but decided it was simply too cost-prohibitive at the time. I think Bill Kaman still owns one or two, and there may be others scattered about the planet. Do NOT confuse them with an Adamas model called the Q597. By all accounts, the prototype Q's are absolutely KILLER guitars.

MAN wouldn't I love to get hold of one!!!!!!!!!!

From the 1998 Ovation Catalog...


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  #45  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:56 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Patch thanks or the post, knew of Q but never saw the brochure. Sad they didn't get it to market, it would have been killer.
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2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
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