Adding Outboard Effects Into The Mix

[Rick Shepherd]

I am having difficulty figuring out how to incoporate my outboard effects into my recordings, so I thought, maybe some of you could help me.

My recording setup is as follows:

Mic --> Preamp --> AD Converter -> M-Audio Profire 610 interface --> Computer

My effects processor (Lexicon PCM-92) has balanced XLR analog I/O's, as well as balanced 1/4" TRS outputs. It also has AES/EBU I/O. The unit also has an RJ-45 connection is used to network PCM92 devices and control them
via Ethernet, however I do not know if this would allow me to actually control the unit through the computer and create some type of send/return channel for including effects into my recording software. I think the PCM-96 allows this type of control, but I am not sure. The PCM-92 came with a CD which included software to allow ethernet connection capabilities, but as far as I can tell, all I can really do is update the firmware via an ethernet connection.

I need to work up a separate connection between the PCM-92 and the Profire 610, and then use the Profire 610 software to route the effects into the mix. The Profire 610 is connected directly to my Macbook Pro via a firewire connection. I think this might be the best way to make it work, because the effects can be added to my recordings at any time, whether it be during the recording process, or after I am finished recording the raw tracks.

What are your thoughts on this?

[sdelsolray]

Two solutions:

1) Line outs of the M-Audio to the PCM analog inputs, PCM line outs to the line ins on the M-Audio; or

2) SPDIF out from the M-Audio to AES/EBU inputs on the PCM, PCM AES/EBU outs to the SPDIF inputs on the M-audio.

To do the second option (which is preferable because there is no extra conversion step) you will need to add AES/EBU to SPDIF cable converters. Here's a sample:

AES/EBU to SPDIF cable converters

[moon]

Ideally you'd also have a latency compensation feature in the DAW. Ardour, for example, lets you ping external hardware buses to measure the delay. Presumably this slows everything else down a touch to compensate but that wouldn't matter when you're mixing.

When you're overdubbing a processed signal you can just go straight through the FX unit.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thank-you gentlemen!

1.) One problem I have is that I am currently using the SPDIF input on the Profire 610 to receive the input from my UA2192 converter. I guess I could just use the XLR analog outs from my converter to the inputs of the Profire 610, and that will free up the SPDIF input for the PCM-92. Does this sound like a good idea?

2.) Also, what is a BNC connector? I don't understand what that is. In the picture, it only shows the XLR AES/EBU ends, so I can't see the BNC SPDIF end. BTW, the i/o selection on the PCM-92 includes BNC as a connection option.

3.) The next task, after I make the connections, will be to figure out how to add effects to each track after the raw recording is complete. I have listened to a few of the PCM-92's preset reverbs and toyed around with them. What I have heard so far is extremely lush. I can't wait to hear more, but I have much to learn. I feel a bit overwhelmed at how deep one can go into all the different settings and options for each type of reverb, but it will be worth it to learn how to get the most out of this box. It is really incredible!

[moon]

(1) The dry signal is more important and should take the best possible signal path ie UA2192 digital out to Profire digital in. Use analogue for the lexicon send/return. However, given the quality of the gear you're using, maybe you'd be better off with a new interface with more digital I/O so that the FX loop doesn't have to pass through Profire ADDA.

(2) The BNC connector is for clock sync.

(3) Rather than adding reverb to each track, add sends from each track to a single reverb effect so they're all in the same "room". The amount you send from each track will affect the position in the mix: more reverb can make the instrument sound as if it's farther away and vice versa. Once you've got it set up just right, turn the volume down on the Lexicon return bus. Repeat this step a few times until it really is just right.

I can't really talk though. Often I just can't resist going nuts with delay and reverb.

[Rick Shepherd]

Moon, sdelsolrey,

Thanks for the info. Please revisit this thread while I work out all my issues.

I installed a driver from the CD that came with the PCM-92 which allows for an ethernet connection between the PCM-92 and the Macbook Pro. The problem is: I thought there would be some software included which allows one to control the PCM-92 through my Macbook. Was I mistaken in thinking this would be possible, or is this an option reserved for PCM-96 users?

Can you recommend a device which would allow me more digital connection options?

[sdelsolray]

You won't be using the UA2192 during mixdown, so you can reroute the M-Audio SPDIF (in and out) to the Lexicon. Again, that way there will be no additional DA/AD conversion. All processing will be done in the digital realm. At the risk of oversymplifying, AES/EBU is balanced digital and SPDIF is unbalanced digital, other wise they are the same. BNC cabling is for wordclock connections.

[moon]

Sorry not sure what the ethernet connection does or what the best interface would be. Just make sure you can send different tracks from your DAW to each digital out. For example, I think the Emu 0404 usb has optical and spdif coaxial outs but they always carry the same signal.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thanks sdelsolrey, I appreciate the info! If it just means rerouting my connections after the recording is finished, then add effects, I can do that. I just dont like plugging and unplugging those cables, because the connections are so darned tight. Otherwise, I am good to go!

Now, the only other thing I need is to find out if I can, in fact, control the PCM-92 via the Macbook Pro. I lloked at the manual for the PCM-96, which talks about being able to do that, but I am staring to think that I won't be able to do that with the PCM-92. I was led to belive that it was possible over at the Gearslutz site, as well as Lexicon's info on their site.

[moon]

I forgot about the Lexicon plugin. No connection problems and 100% controllable from your mac Because it's a plugin you can have as many 92's all working away at the same time as you like.

[Rick Shepherd]

The PCM-96 has a plugin for remote control by way of your computer. I wish the PCM-92 had the same functionality.

[Rick Shepherd]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Two solutions:

1) Line outs of the M-Audio to the PCM analog inputs, PCM line outs to the line ins on the M-Audio; or

2) SPDIF out from the M-Audio to AES/EBU inputs on the PCM, PCM AES/EBU outs to the SPDIF inputs on the M-audio.

To do the second option (which is preferable because there is no extra conversion step) you will need to add AES/EBU to SPDIF cable converters. Here's a sample:

AES/EBU to SPDIF cable converters

sdelsolrey,

I ordered the cables from Mercenery Audio. That was the easy part. The hard part is figuring out how to add the effects to each track of the mix separately by way of the software. This is where I go completely blank.

BTW, I am waiting for the cables to arrive, so I connected the PCM unit to the Profire via the analog i/o's. I was able to get a sample of what the recordings will sound like with some of the presets on the PCM-92 (not really knowing what the heck I was doing). One of the presets was the a small hall setting. Anyway, the reverb is incredible! I can't wait to have you listen to a recording using effects from this unit..

[Rick Shepherd]

Regarding the cables: The UA2192 has 2 pairs of AES outputs. Each pair is a male and female XLR, one being 40-200kHz, the other pair 40-100kHz(dual wire only). I can't make heads or tails of which two, one one I should use. Gosh, this is causing me so much frustration! I feel like I am in way over my head.

Here is a link to the UA2192 rear panel for reference:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2192/

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Regarding the cables: The UA2192 has 2 pairs of AES outputs. Each pair is a male and female XLR, one being 40-200kHz, the other pair 40-100kHz(dual wire only). I can't make heads or tails of which two, one one I should use. Gosh, this is causing me so much frustration! I feel like I am in way over my head.

Here is a link to the UA2192 rear panel for reference:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2192/

Rick,

Use the AES/EBU in's and out's that are next to your S/PDIF ports. That would be the 40-200 ports. That is of course if you've purchased two AES/EBU cables.

However I could envision this getting a tad confusing and more info (at least for me) is needed to get started. Can you clarify some things? I'm assuming you're using the Universal and the M-Audio device for A/D and that the routing (at least during recording) is the analog in into the Universal then Universal-S/PDIF out to the M-Audio S/PDIF in and then those two channels on to your software....yes? If so you'll still have to do some plugging and un-plugging between recording and mixing unless the Universal converter doesn't count AES/EBU in as an input...not likely.

BTW I don't think we've even established what software you're using have we??

I'll also assume the Universal is a two-in/two out device??

S/DIF carries sync but AES/EBU does NOT. So I'm guessing there WILL be clock issues but it's difficult to solve clock issues without knowing what software you're using

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Regarding the cables: The UA2192 has 2 pairs of AES outputs. Each pair is a male and female XLR, one being 40-200kHz, the other pair 40-100kHz(dual wire only). I can't make heads or tails of which two, one one I should use. Gosh, this is causing me so much frustration! I feel like I am in way over my head.

Here is a link to the UA2192 rear panel for reference:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2192/

You don't need to use the UA2192 AES/EBU connections during mixing, or at any other time.