Chasing clarity

TBman · #1 05-30-2020, 07:56 AM

This first clip is El McMeen, the second clip is me.

I recorded with my Avalon, 2 AT2035 mics into a Scarlett 2i4. I don't think I can reach his recording clarity and separation of notes with my guitars, mics and 2i4. Am I wrong? Something tells me I'm not. Any suggestions if it can be done? (I'm playing with bare flesh, no nails. Could it be I need to use nails/finger picks as well?)

Clip 1:

Clip 2:

Rille · #2 05-30-2020, 08:23 AM

If you're using Phosphor bronze strings, try 80/20 bronze for deep and clarity, is my suggestion. I'm using the D'addario XT 80/20 right now and are happy with that.

Peace

islandguitar · #3 05-30-2020, 08:47 AM

Hi Barry! Looks like you're chasing some goals this morning! Bravo!

The thought occurred to me that you don't know El's recording, mixing, mastering, which I'm sure is "big time" and this undoubtedly affects what you hear when making the comparison of the two recordings.....even though I know it's supposed to be based on playing/technique. Also, we don't know what El used for a guitar on that track.
That said, what I do hear is that flesh surface which is creating the sound that I think troubles you and makes for lack of clarity. It could be that experimenting with different picks would make a difference for you, or as has been stated, different strings might work. Depending on your playing even one pick on a finger might change up your sound.....or even different picks on different fingers.
Years ago I had the same issue with my finger picks (antique nationals)....there was too much "metal click" in my recordings and it drove me a little bonkers! For lots of years I've used the Pro Pik "fingertones" so I get some flesh and pick combined in lieu of finger nails which are non existent!
At any rate good luck with exploring all this.......!
Fred

runamuck · #4 05-30-2020, 09:06 AM

Those two guitars sound quite different to me and it sounds like the mics were closer to his guitar causing a greater proximity effect of more low end.

TBman · #5 05-30-2020, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandguitar

Hi Barry! Looks like you're chasing some goals this morning! Bravo!

The thought occurred to me that you don't know El's recording, mixing, mastering, which I'm sure is "big time" and this undoubtedly affects what you hear when making the comparison of the two recordings.....even though I know it's supposed to be based on playing/technique. Also, we don't know what El used for a guitar on that track.
That said, what I do hear is that flesh surface which is creating the sound that I think troubles you and makes for lack of clarity. It could be that experimenting with different picks would make a difference for you, or as has been stated, different strings might work. Depending on your playing even one pick on a finger might change up your sound.....or even different picks on different fingers.
Years ago I had the same issue with my finger picks (antique nationals)....there was too much "metal click" in my recordings and it drove me a little bonkers! For lots of years I've used the Pro Pik "fingertones" so I get some flesh and pick combined in lieu of finger nails which are non existent!
At any rate good luck with exploring all this.......!
Fred

Thanks Fred. I have a set of Finger tones. I'll going to try them again.

rick-slo · #6 05-30-2020, 10:42 AM

Your recording has lots of noise. You need to work on reducing the level of that at recording time.

Also sounds like Ed miked closer and probably with mikes further apart (giving a greater difference in sound between the right and left channels).

TBman · #7 05-30-2020, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Your recording has lots of noise. You need to work on reducing the level of that at recording time.

Also sounds like Ed miked closer and probably with mikes further apart (giving a greater difference in sound between the right and left channels).

Thanks Rick.

Chipotle · #8 05-30-2020, 11:45 AM

I do think flesh vs nails/pick is a big part of the difference you're hearing. Note separation has a lot to do with the attack. Listen to the attack of each note. On the first recording it is sharp and punchy, accentuating the start of each note. The second, it's a bit softer and less defined. If you want that definition, definitely

experiment with picks or your nails.

islandguitar · #9 05-30-2020, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBman

Thanks Fred. I have a set of Finger tones. I'll going to try them again.

As you experiment with them, don't forget to set them on an angle that works with your picking hand for a nice flush attack to get tone. Otherwise you may get more undesirable sounds. The Pro Pick on my index finger is always turned quite a bit, while the pick on my middle finger is "straight on".
There are times with my tunes where I have "an intervention"....LOL! Where I have to alter my style to fit a tone I want from picking.
If you listen to the start of "Dancer's Interlude" with the first single notes......I had to practice and work that out with a different attack to get those full notes....just an example which may or may not help with where you're heading.

TBman · #10 05-30-2020, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandguitar

As you experiment with them, don't forget to set them on an angle that works with your picking hand for a nice flush attack to get tone. Otherwise you may get more undesirable sounds. The Pro Pick on my index finger is always turned quite a bit, while the pick on my middle finger is "straight on".
There are times with my tunes where I have "an intervention"....LOL! Where I have to alter my style to fit a tone I want from picking.
If you listen to the start of "Dancer's Interlude" with the first single notes......I had to practice and work that out with a different attack to get those full notes....just an example which may or may not help with where you're heading.

I'm glad you said that. When I was initially fooling around with them I noticed that turning them made them sound better and I thought I just didn't know what I was doing and that was why. Time to revisit them. New project!

TBman · #11 05-30-2020, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runamuck

Those two guitars sound quite different to me and it sounds like the mics were closer to his guitar causing a greater proximity effect of more low end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Also sounds like Ed miked closer and probably with mikes further apart (giving a greater difference in sound between the right and left channels).

I had the mics about 10" - 12" away. I'll try closer.

rick-slo · #12 05-30-2020, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBman

I had the mics about 10" - 12" away. I'll try closer.

Actually that's already quite close mic'ing in my opinion. I doubt El McMeen miked that close. I said his mikes were perhaps closer due to the greater warmth in his recording and perhaps some mike proximity effect. However various other factors are in play. Maybe copy the mike positioning in this video and see how it sounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3HorVBIqk

Doug Young · #13 05-30-2020, 01:52 PM

Room acoustics is 90% of this. If this was off one of El's CDs, it would have been recorded by Mark Moss in his recording studio. El's home recordings don't sound like this (usually done on his phone...). Good room acoustics, good signal chain, and a Grammy-nominated recording engineer.

You should be able to come closer to this than you currently are with mic placement, but non-optimal room acoustics are hard to overcome.

Doug Young · #14 05-30-2020, 05:21 PM

Barry, what tune of El's is that?

TBman · #15 05-30-2020, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Barry, what tune of El's is that?

Doug, its the Skye Boat Song.