Soundproofing open room?

[Axelorox]

I've been playing, singing, and songwriting for some years now and would like to start getting into recording. Of course, the first issue is what space to use as a recording studio.

I know these are usually done in closed rooms, but I'm wondering if an open room (on a floor with open floor plan) could be sufficiently soundproofed. The closed rooms on the other floor of the house are bedrooms, so not suitable for a recording studio. Additionally, the open room is where my piano is located, and a lot of the music I write is based around piano. It would be difficult if not impossible to move it elsewhere, and I have found electric pianos to be too artificial-sounding and unresponsive to my ear. I'm also looking to use the space to play and eventually record acoustic drums (once again, the electric sets sound too artificial to me).

I was thinking of constructing some free-standing wall panels with sound-proofing materials/pads attached to block off the open areas of the room's walls whenever I need things to be soundproof. Is this a viable idea?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Axelorox

I was thinking of constructing some free-standing wall panels with sound-proofing materials/pads attached to block off the open areas of the room's walls whenever I need things to be soundproof. Is this a viable idea?

I'm unclear if you really mean "soundproofing", which is preventing sound from entering or leaving the room, or if you mean acoustic treatment - making the space sound good, taming echos, bass buildup and so on.

Acoustic treatment, sure, you can do that. A larger room is fine for recording, professional studios can be very large. You can either install treatment for the whole room, which could get expensive, or create portable sound baffles to create local zones around your instrument. There are threads right below this one where people are showing examples of ones they built. It may not be as effective as a fully treated room, but it can help.

If you really mean soundproofing, as in keeping out the sounds of the dishwasher or kids watching TV in an adjoining open room, or not letting your drums bother others in the house, then no, you need to seal off the room - and even then, it's challenging. Just putting up a baffle with air (and sound) still flowing around it between rooms isn't going to do much at all. True soundproofing is very hard, especially if you're trying to keep the sound of drums from annoying others.

My studio is in the garage and was originally built when my son started a rock band - building a double-insulated, sealed, room in a room in the garage kept the neighbors from evicting us with pitchforks. But it did nothing to help inside the house, even with the door between house and garage closed, because there were air-pathways between the garage and house (air, furnace, etc)

[jim1960]

In a large room, you could probably do fine just setting up some gobos. Soundproofing sounds like it would be quite a bit of overkill, not to mention expensive.

[Axelorox]

Thank you both for your feedback. It seems that I was unclear on my terminology. Sounds like acoustic treatment is more what I'm after. I'll start looking around some of the threads here

Originally Posted by Doug Young

If you really mean soundproofing, as in keeping out the sounds of the dishwasher or kids watching TV in an adjoining open room, or not letting your drums bother others in the house, then no, you need to seal off the room - and even then, it's challenging. Just putting up a baffle with air (and sound) still flowing around it between rooms isn't going to do much at all. True soundproofing is very hard, especially if you're trying to keep the sound of drums from annoying others.

The rest of the house is generally pretty quiet (at least at certain times of day so I'm not too concerned about extraneous sounds. For the drums, I just need to block off the sound enough to prevent the full brunt/volume of an acoustic kit being played hard. Otherwise sound getting through is okay.

[alohachris]

Aloha Axelorox,

Here's a re-print of a previous post. There have been many here RE: the necessity of Room Treatment for controlling your space, maximizing your gear & achieving consistency & clarity in your home recordings.

Here are a few Room Treatment Resources:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/studio.php

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

http://realtraps.com/art_basics.htm

https://ledgernote.com/columns/studi...nels-and-foam/

More available if required.

Just build 2-to-9 of Fran's moveable, portable, storable OC 703 broadband absorbers (per his video above) & you don't need an expensive, permanent built in studio. You can control most spaces with that. Everything you need to build these 4"x2'x4' panels is available cheaply at Walmart. The OC 703 rigid fiberglass (what all pro studio's use) can be ordered through an acoustic materials house. Save money! DIY.

Take control of those nasty room reflections & treat your room. Achieve the clear, full-spectrum, un-muddy & musical sounding recordings you deserve. It's the ONLY way to maximize your gear & signal chain. It will make the biggest difference in your recordings, even more than any gear you buy!

Buy the 2"x2'x4' OC 703 panels & double them up. Use Loctite 200 or 300 spray adhesive. Choose a cover material & apply that at the corners & edges with hot-melt glue (fr. Walmart). The panels are thick enough at 4" thick to be free-standing w/o wooden frames (whose hard surfaces defeats the purpose of the absorbers, IMO - no need). Check out Fran's video above.

When working with OC703, remember its rigid fiberglass & a building material. Wear eye protection, a mask, gloves & long sleeves. Don't touch it or let it brush up against you. Make the panels outside if you can. I made 22 broadband absorbers & never had a single issue in working with it.

You'll get arguments here from the Roxul fans who champion its lack of health or working issues & similar attributes. But I have never seen or heard of a large pro studio treated with it. Use OC 703 rigid fiberglass for Room Treatment.

PM me if you have questions about how to make your own treatment, Axel.

Good Luck!

alohachris

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Axelorox

I've been playing, singing, and songwriting for some years now and would like to start getting into recording. Of course, the first issue is what space to use as a recording studio.

I know these are usually done in closed rooms, but I'm wondering if an open room (on a floor with open floor plan) could be sufficiently soundproofed. The closed rooms on the other floor of the house are bedrooms, so not suitable for a recording studio. Additionally, the open room is where my piano is located, and a lot of the music I write is based around piano. It would be difficult if not impossible to move it elsewhere, and I have found electric pianos to be too artificial-sounding and unresponsive to my ear. I'm also looking to use the space to play and eventually record acoustic drums (once again, the electric sets sound too artificial to me).

I was thinking of constructing some free-standing wall panels with sound-proofing materials/pads attached to block off the open areas of the room's walls whenever I need things to be soundproof. Is this a viable idea?

Gobos could be highly effective for what you want to do.

I recently did a few videos using our largest space, which is an open floor plan livingroom / kitchen / dining room with vaulted ceiling. I was pleasantly surprised by how well the untreated room worked for me. The recorder is a lowly Tascam DR-05, close micing the Cube EX amp that I ported the looper and vocal mic through.

https://youtu.be/S3G2zpcA2-Y

I guess the idea is to use what you have and build on the experience of capturing your work as best you can.

[Doug Young]

One thing to keep in mind is that there's two situations where you need good acoustics (often requiring acoustic treatment) - for tracking, and for mixing. It's hard to say which is more important, (they're really equal) tho I'd kind of argue for mixing. If you can't hear what you've recorded - for which you need good monitors and a room that doesn't mask or color what those monitors produce, you won't know if you've recorded well, or if there are issues during tracking. Portable solutions (gobos) are fine for tracking, but what will you do about your monitoring and mixing environment?

[Axelorox]

It's starting to seem like gobos will be a good option.

Originally Posted by alohachris

PM me if you have questions about how to make your own treatment, Axel.

Good Luck!

alohachris

Thank you so much for curating all that information! I'll be in touch as I start planning out the setup.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

One thing to keep in mind is that there's two situations where you need good acoustics (often requiring acoustic treatment) - for tracking, and for mixing. It's hard to say which is more important, (they're really equal) tho I'd kind of argue for mixing. If you can't hear what you've recorded - for which you need good monitors and a room that doesn't mask or color what those monitors produce, you won't know if you've recorded well, or if there are issues during tracking. Portable solutions (gobos) are fine for tracking, but what will you do about your monitoring and mixing environment?

Hm, I've not thought about the mixing yet. Do you have any suggested resources on how to build an environment for that? If it's mainly computer based I could do it in one of the closed rooms in the house.

[alohachris]

Aloha Axelorox,

Glad to help.

In my last post, I stated that I made a total of 22 DIY broadband absorbers in all - but not all at one time. I made them as my control needs arose & my knowledge about the recording process & Room Acoustics increased.

The first nine 4"x2'x4' OC 703 panels were used to surround me where I track: two in a V in front of the mics, two behind me, two on each side & one hung above.

This "room-within-a-room" portable configuration allowed me to control all frequencies & early room reflections where I played & worked very well in every space I used it, small or large. I could widen or lessen the space between the free-standing panels to put more or less room in a recording. I could even place some absorbers in a corner & use as a vocal booth. See the possibilities with portable DIY Room Treatment, Axel?

But then? I discovered that the area around my computer desk & other electronics suffered from additional lack of control & also required treatment. And you really need that for mixing, editing & mastering or careful listening. How did I know? There was a lack of consistency in my vocal & acoustic guitar recordings & also missing details that mic placement (very important) would not fix. I needed to hear the recordings in a more controlled space.

After consulting many 'Sound on Sound' back articles RE: treating a home recording space, Ethan Winer's "Acoustic Treatment Bible," & also discussing it over at the gearslutz "Studio Building" site with guys who'd recently treated their spaces, I realized how easy it was to add more DIY OC 703 broadband aborbers around my desk for the control & consistency I needed - in carefully listening to my recorded music for mixing & editing. As Doug said, this is essential.

So I added absorbers behind & above the monitors (off the wall) & above the editing desk area & also on the sides symmetrically as far out from the monitors as I sit. This treated sonic "cocoon" really helped me hear details & control the separated, full-spectrum of frequencies of my recordings. And it made my Adams A7X passive monitors really come alive - especially with sound-staging, clarity & depth. Huge sonic difference! I could listen over & over without fatigue for many hours with pretty decent & consistent results.

Later, I made more OC 703 absorbers & placed them across the four corners of the space, from floor to ceiling to treat the ROOM as Bass traps. More control. Less mid-range mud. And I added them across the wall-to-ceiling joints at the front half of the pretty large room.

Additionally, I hung two layers 4" apart of mover's blankets (usually used blankets are free at the mover's) across the floor-to-ceiling windows all around the 10'x20'x35' studio & also across all other hard surfaces like pictures, stove, fridge door, etc.. I experimented a lot with placement of the treatment because I didn't want to create a "DEAD" space, only one I could control for the simple, acoustic music I played.

The best part of all this DIY treatment, Axel, was that it was completely portable. I could break it all down in a few minutes, store in a closet & use the room for living or music parties. Nothing was permanent. I didn't even build frames for the free-standing panels - hard surfaces defeat the purposes of the treatment. I used velcro around & above the editing desk.

Bottom-line, Axel? When I finally committed to Room Treatment, I achieved the best recordings of my long life in music - the best I could do, anyway.

Don't wait to commit. Get TREATED! Make 2-9 absorbers to get started, Axel. And treat the surfaces around your editing, mixing & mastering desk so you can hear what you recorded clearly.

A high-end $10K mic into a $6K preamp will make less of a difference - BY FAR - to your recordings than just spending a few hundred on some DIY broadband absorbers. The gear is sexier to talk about. The Room Treatment is more necessary to your recordings.

Good Luck, Axelorox!

alohachris

PS: I'd like to acknowledge Uncle Fran Guidry's video contributions to my (and so many others) being able to finally get treated with his DIY Broadband Absorbers. It's a tremendous gift for all player/recordists at this site. Couldn't have done it without you, Fran! Mahalo a nui! -alohachris-

[Brent Hahn]

I'd care less about "proofing" and more about " treating." I had a client in Barbados for whom I mixed records that were tracked in a Bajan corrugated-steel shed; you could hear rainfall and pigeons and chickens in the tracks. Several of their records went to #1 in a dozen Caribbean and South American countries.

[alohachris]

Aloha Brent,

Always like your professional point of view & experiences. I can relate. That story was very funny & also insightful RE: what recordists & engineers are up against several times per day in the real world. Ha! Always something, huh?

It was the same way in Hawaii when I got here in the 70's. Always had to account for the constant background of loud roosters, even in the heart of Honolulu where they were bred in horrible conditions for fighting. And in Filipino neighborhoods, especially on Kauai, it was a total cacophony of chickens every morning til sunset. Your ears would ring! No way to treat ANY recording space in those situations.

I was recorded once in an open, rural WWII era, Waimanalo Quonset hut in the rain, to make cassettes to sell at gigs. Waiting for a lull in the chicken insanity. We finally just gave up & left the rooster calls in the tracks back in those analog Portastudio days. And I was never #1 in anyone's mind, especially my own - I just liked playing for folks. The cassettes paid for the gas to get to gigs & parking in Waikiki. My gigs paid for my gear. Tips paid for late-night, post-gig food & drink. Day-job paid for everything else. But luckily, despite those one-time, taped rooster calls, & thanks to many, many tourists, I always sold out of tapes by the end of every gig. I wonder what they thought when they played that chicken tape in Tokyo?!? Ha!

The roosters here are not so bad now. Civilization has caught up with these Islands. I still hear a few early in the AM across the valley. Good Night, Brent!

A Hui Hou,
alohachris

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

If you can't hear what you've recorded - for which you need good monitors and a room that doesn't mask or color what those monitors produce, you won't know if you've recorded well...

Or putting it another way... if you track and mix in the same problematic room, when you play back your problematic recording you won't be able to hear the problem.

It's sorta like tracking in the kitchen with the fridge running -- play it back in the kitchen with the fridge still running and you won't hear the fridge in the recording even though loud as heck. The same thing applies to acoustical problems.

[DupleMeter]

Mike, Eli & I just talked about this on the latest Production Expert podcast. It's the 2nd half of the podcast that starts out talking about my drum recording article. There's a lot of good options mentioned...mostly by Mike.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...st-episode-429

Originally Posted by Axelorox

I've been playing, singing, and songwriting for some years now and would like to start getting into recording. Of course, the first issue is what space to use as a recording studio.

I know these are usually done in closed rooms, but I'm wondering if an open room (on a floor with open floor plan) could be sufficiently soundproofed. The closed rooms on the other floor of the house are bedrooms, so not suitable for a recording studio. Additionally, the open room is where my piano is located, and a lot of the music I write is based around piano. It would be difficult if not impossible to move it elsewhere, and I have found electric pianos to be too artificial-sounding and unresponsive to my ear. I'm also looking to use the space to play and eventually record acoustic drums (once again, the electric sets sound too artificial to me).

I was thinking of constructing some free-standing wall panels with sound-proofing materials/pads attached to block off the open areas of the room's walls whenever I need things to be soundproof. Is this a viable idea?

[Axelorox]

Steve, thanks for sharing that podcast. I'll check it out soon. Recording drums is of interest to me since it seems to be the most difficult piece.

@alohachris I've started digging in through the awesome information you've shared, but any links featuring '...' in your post seem to be broken.

[alohachris]

Aloha Axelorox,

I guess the post I copied is too old for the links to be viable. Here are many of them, all still very relevant to what you need:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/ro...nt-effect-demo

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

http://realtraps.com/art_basics.htm

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

https://ledgernote.com/columns/studi...nels-and-foam/

These will help. Check out Fran's DIY video first, then Doug's "treatment" demo's, etc. Ethan Winer's acoustic treatment bible is dense, but important reading for understanding why room treatment is absolutely necessary if you're recording, especially using microphone's.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience, Axelorox.

alohachris