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  #46  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by strumming View Post
Aha! That's the information that was missing. I read the entire manual and looked at their web page but I didn't see this anywhere. Thanks for the clarification! I'm guessing I can get a "splitter cable" from guitar center?
Yes, probably. They're called "Y Cables" or "Insert Cables". I think GC carries Hosa, which are pretty cheap, but I haven't looked there in a long time. I linked to an example of a short insert cable in my earlier answer:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ert-cable-30cm
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  #47  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Yes, probably. They're called "Y Cables" or "Insert Cables". I think GC carries Hosa, which are pretty cheap, but I haven't looked there in a long time. I linked to an example of a short insert cable in my earlier answer:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ert-cable-30cm
Thanks again! Looking at the Felix user's manual, it seems it has an "Effects Insert" on the back. I assume this will be used with an insert cable to connect the ToneDexter and other effects cables. Correct?
Would I use another insert cable coming out of the ToneDexter to the other effects and back into the ToneDexter then send the final signal to the PA from the "out" from the ToneDexter?
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Last edited by strumming; 01-11-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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  #48  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by strumming View Post
Thanks again! Looking at the Felix user's manual, it seems it has an "Effects Insert" on the back. I assume this will be used with an insert cable to connect the ToneDexter and other effects cables. Correct?
Right, Felix works exactly the same way as ToneDexter as far as the effects insert. Most (or at least many) guitar preamps do it like this. I know it seems complicated, but it's not in practice. Just plug the TRS into TD (today) or Felix (when you get one), and then forget about that - you will have two plugs on the end of the Y cable, one that goes into your effects chain, the other that comes back out of your effects chain.
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  #49  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:59 PM
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Right, Felix works exactly the same way as ToneDexter as far as the effects insert. Most (or at least many) guitar preamps do it like this. I know it seems complicated, but it's not in practice. Just plug the TRS into TD (today) or Felix (when you get one), and then forget about that - you will have two plugs on the end of the Y cable, one that goes into your effects chain, the other that comes back out of your effects chain.
Makes sense. What input/output do I use on the TD once I have the Felix? Do I simply use the "in" (right) and "out" (left) through the TD? BTW, Feel free to send me your consulting bill, you've earned it! ;-)
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  #50  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:04 PM
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Makes sense. What input/output do I use on the TD once I have the Felix? Do I simply use the "in" (right) and "out" (left) through the TD? BTW, Feel free to send me your consulting bill, you've earned it! ;-)
Those are the only quarter-inch inputs ToneDexter has, so yes. In this case, you're treating ToneDexter like any effects box. The fact that it has an XLR/DI out and its own effects loop is irrelevant at this point. Just think of it as being the same as your reverb or whatever, with a 1/4 inch input and 1/4 inch out.
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  #51  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:26 PM
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Those are the only quarter-inch inputs ToneDexter has, so yes.
That's what I thought but isn't the "effects" in the back also a quarter-inch input?
I assume that the other effects could come off the TD insert cable connection in the back and then out of the TD to the PA?
Not sure why anyone would want to do this but I assume that would technically work?
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Last edited by strumming; 01-11-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-11-2020, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by strumming View Post
That's what I thought but isn't the "effects" in the back also a quarter-inch input?
I assume that the other effects could come off the TD insert cable connection in the back and then out of the TD to the PA?
Not sure why anyone would want to do this but I assume that would technically work?
The insert is a 1/4 TRS (stereo) jack. You could indeed tap into it for an extra unbalanced output (which I agree, don't know why you'd need). But if you tried to use that as an input, you'd not get the TD effect. It's an "insert", a point at which you break the signal chain, after TD's processing, so you can put something in the signal path. Think of it like this:

Gtr In -> ToneDexter Magic -> Insert Point -> DI out

When you plug a cable into the insert point and add some other boxes, you get

Gtr In -> ToneDexter Magic -> Insert Out -> Your Effects Boxes -> Insert In -> DI out

The only jack that gets your guitar routed thru the ToneDexter magic is the guitar in on the right hand side of the box.
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  #53  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
The insert is a 1/4 TRS (stereo) jack. You could indeed tap into it for an extra unbalanced output (which I agree, don't know why you'd need). But if you tried to use that as an input, you'd not get the TD effect. It's an "insert", a point at which you break the signal chain, after TD's processing, so you can put something in the signal path. Think of it like this:

Gtr In -> ToneDexter Magic -> Insert Point -> DI out

When you plug a cable into the insert point and add some other boxes, you get

Gtr In -> ToneDexter Magic -> Insert Out -> Your Effects Boxes -> Insert In -> DI out

The only jack that gets your guitar routed thru the ToneDexter magic is the guitar in on the right hand side of the box.
Thanks again! I really appreciate it. Can't wait to get the Felix and 4099 and hear what mixing the mic with the TD sounds like. It already sounds REALLY good with just the TD! Then I'll be looking for a really good reverb and compressor. Any recommendations there are much appreciated as well. ;-)
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  #54  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:26 PM
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I just set up to use my ToneDexter with a Boss DM-2w delay pedal. WOW is that cool. I use the effects loop out-in on the TDx. That way I can use the TDx XLR out or 1/4" out depending on where I'm going.


My oh my, that is a fantastic sound. Just a little short delay on the natural sound. I'm swooning.
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  #55  
Old 01-12-2020, 03:59 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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I thought you wanted to put ToneDexter in your Felix effects loop? In any case, the effects loop (an "insert" actually) is the same as every preamp I know of. You take a line out of ToneDexter, feed it into one or a chain of pedals, then the output of the pedals back into ToneDexter. You need an "insert cable", since ToneDexter uses a single TRS jack for input and output (also very common).
Pardon my ignorance, but what is the advantage of using the effects loop instead of just daisy-chaining devices? Also, when would I or wouldn't I use the effects loop on the ToneDexter?

Thanks.
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  #56  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:13 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is the advantage of using the effects loop instead of just daisy-chaining devices? Also, when would I or wouldn't I use the effects loop on the ToneDexter?

Thanks.

When you use the effects loop on a preamp like ToneDexter or Felix, you still get to use the DI out to send an XLR cable to a mixer. If you're just plugging into an amp, it probably doesn't matter. For example, this is fine to cascade effects:

gtr in-> TD -> 1/4 out -> reverb -> amp

But if you go into a PA and do that, you'll end up needing a DI at the end of the chain, which would be a waste, since TD already has a DI out. Also, for more complex scenarios like a PA plus a stage amp, the effects loop makes it all work. Example:

gtr in -> ToneDexter -----> XLR out to PA
| FX ^ -----> 1/4 out to stage amp
| |
V |
reverb
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  #57  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:53 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is the advantage of using the effects loop instead of just daisy-chaining devices? Also, when would I or wouldn't I use the effects loop on the ToneDexter?

Thanks.
There is an argument for daisychaining the units with the TD last to take advantage of the XLR out as Doug describes. I haven't put numbers to this but my own messing about suggests the TD insert point is operating at a signal level higher than what some (maybe not all) pedals are expecting, more like a standard rack unit.

My ideal setup was to put my AG Stomp in the insert but I found I was turning the input level on the AG down to avoid overloading the AG input, then setting the AG output gain at max to feed the insert return something it was happy with, resulting in annoying but not catastrophic noise and a less detailed and transparent outcome.

Daisychaining (AG>TD) made it better but the connectors made it just too big for my pedal case.

As it turned out my guitar was better suited to the TD and mandola to the AG so I just separated them and used a different mixer channel for each.
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  #58  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:01 PM
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I haven't put numbers to this but my own messing about suggests the TD insert point is operating at a signal level higher than what some (maybe not all) pedals are expecting, more like a standard rack unit.
yes, I have run into gain-staging issues with effects loops on preamps before as well. I don't think there's any standard for levels on guitar pedals, or maybe there are too many standards. Usually, you just have to try it and see if it works.
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  #59  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:08 PM
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I don't think there's any standard for levels on guitar pedals, or maybe there are too many standards.
I believe there are impedance issues, but I'm not sure of the effect. For example, the BOSS’s FV-500 volume pedals come in low (FV-500L) and high (FV-500H) versions, with the high impedance version called "insert level."

Does this mean that high-impedance devices should use the insert loop, while low-impedance devices should be daisy-chained?
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  #60  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:17 PM
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Impedance mostly matters with passive devices - active systems are inherently buffered. Your example of a volume pedal is, I think, passive, so it may matter more. But as always, I'm sure there are exceptions to everything, you just have to try it and see - and what one person thinks sounds good, another will think sounds bad :-)
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