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  #31  
Old 12-25-2019, 12:47 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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There is a lot of good info on this thread. I agree with the other Dazzo users. The Dazzo is so mic like that the TD makes it different, not necessarily better. If you decide that you like the new sound your getting from the HFN then definitely go with the Grace Alix. I owned one and it is a total quality piece of gear. If you believe you need to make corrections in the plugged in tone then go with the TD.
I am waiting for the Sunnaudio guys to come out with their full featured preamp DI. No need for AC power and high quality components. Their two channel version will be available soon and their one channel should come after that.
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2019, 12:58 PM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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Yes! I'm glad this thread came this far, with all these good information.

I will check my live sound soon, next sunday, and I will make my decision after my gig. If it sound natural enough, I will probably get me an Alix. If I think it isn't too natural, I'll get the TD.

Either way, I'll have a great gear at my hand!

If I'm getting me a Alix, I'll probably get me a LR Baggs Align Session (like my session, but without the DI/Preamp, since I'd be using the Alix for it. I'm looking forward for sunday!
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  #33  
Old 01-07-2020, 11:50 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Default A Baby Step Toward IR Generation Code in Matlab

I generated my first IR with Matlab this morning.

Nothing too exciting yet... I took a single 2^17 sample segment (about 3 seconds, starting about 6 seconds in) out of the RainSong CH-PA/HFN recording I sent Cuki79, Blackman windowed it (a slow rise and fall in volume at the beginning and end of the segment) as advised by Cuki79, and did the simplest FFT, divide, iFFT, and truncate to 2048 long.

As soon as I've got the code integrating multiple segments, generating the minimum phase version, and creating low/high cut versions; I'll be looking for some input from volunteers.

I tried it out today with Reaper's Reaverb effect and it sounded good to me. I'm not ready to take the trouble to download it to my HX Stomp quite yet.

I need to pony up another $50 for the DSP package to generate the minimum phase version. I might port my code to Octave (free) first, but the Matlab environment is very friendly with tons of useful error reporting and good tutorial information.

For the Google crawler and hopefully someone is interested (closing parenthesis on 'audiowrite' are being dropped by the AGF software):

input = 'input.wav' % input file
ss = (2^17); % segment size for analysis
n = 3; % index into wave file in segments
count = 0; % count variable for processed segments
pupl = 1; % pickup left, mic right
window = blackman(ss); % window function
accir = zeros(ss,1); % initialize IR accumulator

% to caclulate minimum phase version 'firminphase' requires DSP System Toolbox

start = ((n-1) * ss);
finish = ((n * ss) -1);
index = [start, finish];
[s,fs] = audioread(input,index); % load segment
smax = max(max(s)) % print max
clip = (smax > 0.999); % check for clipping
if clip == 0 % no clipping
count = count + 1;
if pupl == 1 % seperate pickup/mic & window
pickup = s(:,1) .* window;
mic = s(:,2) .* window;
else
pickup = s(:,2) .* window;
mic = s(:,1) .* window;
end
audiowrite('pickup.wav',pickup,fs); % output windowed wave file
audiowrite('mic.wav',mic,fs); % output windowed wave file
pupfft = fft(pickup); % Fourier transform pickup
micfft = fft(mic); % Fourier transform mic
irfft = micfft ./ pupfft; % divide mic/pup for IR calculation
ir = ifft (irfft); % inverse Fourier transform to calculate IR
ir = ir(1:2048); % truncate IR to 2048 terms
maxir = max(ir) % check IR for clipping
audiowrite('ir.wav',ir,fs); % write out IR
ir(1:10) % check for leading zeros
end

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post

Edited plan:

I am currently using a Cuki79 IR (minimum phase version) with my HFN. I think the HFN sounds fine without the IR, but with the IR I get a fuller slightly more pleasant tone. In my duo it is probably only noticeable to me.

I found using an IR in a "louder not solo application" facilitated by direct control of the lower resonances in the 80-250 Hz range, which I am doing with two parametric EQ notches.
  1. Very large segments and optimal window function to minimize segmentation and frequency domain quantization effects.
  2. Support for IR loaders without low/high cut and/or parametric EQ.

A plan...

• Mic and guitar sample
o determine sample rate
• Segment sample into 3 second intervals
• Skip 6 seconds into sample
o scan mic and pickup segments for max > 0.999
o skip to next segment if clipping detected
o skip 1 segments, repeat and identify 10 segments of mic and guitar with no clipping
• Blackman window each chosen segment (as per Cuki)
• FFT all 10 segment pairs
• Coefficient by Coefficient divide mic FFT by corresponding pickup FFT
• Accumulate quotients
• Scale accumulated quotient by 1/10
• Create minimum phase version
• Option: set quotient coefficients to 1 below 100 and above 10 kHz
• Inverse FFT
• Normalize results to some reasonable gain compatible with 16 bit samples
• Truncate to 2048 points.
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RainSong 2017 CH-PA1100NS & 2018 CO-PA1100NS, TKL 8975s, Taped Passive HFNs, Elixir PB11s
RainSong 2019 V-DR1100N2, TKL 8810, no pickup, Elixir PB11

One QSC CP8 high/behind, duo gigging no mixer two SM58>XLR-Y>CP8, HFN>HxStomp(jf45ir)>TRS>CP8 3.5mm stereo input

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Last edited by jonfields45; 01-07-2020 at 12:00 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:54 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
I generated my first IR with Matlab this morning.
Congratulations! I think you should start your own thread for that.

Also check your emails, I once sent you a link for already made matlab routines for the minimum phase filter.

Cuki
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2020, 04:59 PM
strumming strumming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
tonedexter gets lots of love here.
I wont say too much about it.
only that it didnt work for me.
i do have a felix and wouldnt trade
it for anything. Grace Design puts
studio grade preamps in these things.
and youll need it to overcome the
lousy preamps in the touchmucks
( sitting back eating popcorn)
I'm really sold on the Grace Felix from what I've read and based on some of the players who use and endorse it. In fact, I was hoping it would work well to use both the Grace Felix as my primary pre and Tonedexter for modeling. That way I could mix my DI signal and a DPA 4099 clamp-on gooseneck and run the mixed signal from the Felix through the Tonedexter. Does anyone know if this has been done and to what success?
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2020, 06:48 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strumming View Post
I'm really sold on the Grace Felix from what I've read and based on some of the players who use and endorse it. In fact, I was hoping it would work well to use both the Grace Felix as my primary pre and Tonedexter for modeling. That way I could mix my DI signal and a DPA 4099 clamp-on gooseneck and run the mixed signal from the Felix through the Tonedexter. Does anyone know if this has been done and to what success?
Yes, you can certainly use ToneDexter as an effect, putting it in the effects loop of Felix or some other preamp. That's what I do (I have a Felix, but I've been using a Sunnaudio preamp for a different reason), and I combine the ToneDexter'd pickup with a mic. Works really well for me.

Comparing Felix/Alix to ToneDexter is apples and oranges. The Grace preamps are totally pristine studio preamps in pedal form - if you like the sound of your pickup, they will transmit it faithfully and uncolored, other than allowing for very nice EQ. If you don't like the raw sound of your pickup AND would like to have it sound more like your acoustic sound (not everyone does), then ToneDexter can do that. It's not pristine and uncolored, it's all about modifying your pickup to match the acoustic sound of your guitar.
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  #37  
Old 01-11-2020, 12:39 PM
strumming strumming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Yes, you can certainly use ToneDexter as an effect, putting it in the effects loop of Felix or some other preamp. That's what I do (I have a Felix, but I've been using a Sunnaudio preamp for a different reason), and I combine the ToneDexter'd pickup with a mic. Works really well for me.

Comparing Felix/Alix to ToneDexter is apples and oranges. The Grace preamps are totally pristine studio preamps in pedal form - if you like the sound of your pickup, they will transmit it faithfully and uncolored, other than allowing for very nice EQ. If you don't like the raw sound of your pickup AND would like to have it sound more like your acoustic sound (not everyone does), then ToneDexter can do that. It's not pristine and uncolored, it's all about modifying your pickup to match the acoustic sound of your guitar.
Just got the ToneDexter and did my first modeling using a small diaphragm microphone. I'm impressed with the difference it makes from the raw pickup sound. One thing that's not clear to me is how to chain effects pedals. There is only one 1/4 jack on the back for "effects loop." At the risk of asking a dumb question, how does this work? I'm used to in and out jacks on my pedalboard. How do I bring the signal back to the dexter from the pedals?
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2003 McAlister Model C Adirondack / Brazilian
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:02 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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That one TRS 1/4" jack is both output (TIP) and input (RING). Thus, you can get a Y-cable that'll feed your effects pedal(s) and get their output.
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  #39  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:06 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strumming View Post
Just got the ToneDexter and did my first modeling using a small diaphragm microphone. I'm impressed with the difference it makes from the raw pickup sound. One thing that's not clear to me is how to chain effects pedals. There is only one 1/4 jack on the back for "effects loop." At the risk of asking a dumb question, how does this work? I'm used to in and out jacks on my pedalboard. How do I bring the signal back to the dexter from the pedals?
I thought you wanted to put ToneDexter in your Felix effects loop? In any case, the effects loop (an "insert" actually) is the same as every preamp I know of. You take a line out of ToneDexter, feed it into one or a chain of pedals, then the output of the pedals back into ToneDexter. You need an "insert cable", since ToneDexter uses a single TRS jack for input and output (also very common).

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ert-cable-30cm
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  #40  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:15 PM
strumming strumming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I thought you wanted to put ToneDexter in your Felix effects loop? In any case, the effects loop (an "insert" actually) is the same as every preamp I know of. You take a line out of ToneDexter, feed it into one or a chain of pedals, then the output of the pedals back into ToneDexter. You need an "insert cable", since ToneDexter uses a single TRS jack for input and output (also very common).

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ert-cable-30cm
I don't have the Felix yet (that's my next purchase . I'm building my live pedalboard and started with the ToneDexter.

Interesting, the audio sprockets page (https://audiosprockets.com/tonedexter/) shows a diagram for the "live" setup showing output and input going out/into the same "effect" jack on the back. You're suggesting connecting the effects pedals to the "output" jack on the left of the tonedexter and coming into the "effect" jack on the back of the tonedexter? That's exactly what I was thinking as well but the diagram on their site shows something else (or I'm misreading it).
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  #41  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strumming View Post
You're suggesting connecting the effects pedals to the "output" jack on the left of the tonedexter and coming into the "effect" jack on the back of the tonedexter?
Yes, that's exactly what you do. The effects jack doubles as both a send and a return by using the Y-cable.
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:27 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strumming View Post
I don't have the Felix yet (that's my next purchase . I'm building my live pedalboard and started with the ToneDexter.

Interesting, the audio sprockets page (https://audiosprockets.com/tonedexter/) shows a diagram for the "live" setup showing output and input going out/into the same "effect" jack on the back. You're suggesting connecting the effects pedals to the "output" jack on the left of the tonedexter and coming into the "effect" jack on the back of the tonedexter? That's exactly what I was thinking as well but the diagram on their site shows something else (or I'm misreading it).
No, not the output jack - that's the output, which can go to an amp. Look at this diagram:

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.2...tudio_1280.jpg

and focus only on the one that says "effects loop". The "single" effects jack is actually input and output, using a stereo jack. You need a splitter cable (insert cable) that allows you to have both an input and and output thru that single jack. Many preamps do this, to save space. Felix uses the same approach.
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Last edited by Doug Young; 01-11-2020 at 01:33 PM.
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  #43  
Old 01-11-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
Yes, that's exactly what you do. The effects jack doubles as both a send and a return by using the Y-cable.
No... That won't work.
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  #44  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:05 PM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
No... That won't work.
Whoops, misread the OPs question. Ignore what I said.
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  #45  
Old 01-11-2020, 02:18 PM
strumming strumming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
The "single" effects jack is actually input and output, using a stereo jack. You need a splitter cable
Aha! That's the information that was missing. I read the entire manual and looked at their web page but I didn't see this anywhere. Thanks for the clarification! I'm guessing I can get a "splitter cable" from guitar center?
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1959 Gibson Country Western
1956 Gibson Southern Jumbo
2018 Heinonen "Olson" SJ Western Red Cedar / Cocobolo
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2017 Connor Custom European Spruce / Bubinga
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