Mini Horses Are Now Allowed on Planes! - Page 3

Wengr · #31 10-12-2018, 11:37 AM

Can my wife and I take out "Support Kids"? Might cut down on travel costs.

RedJoker · #32 10-12-2018, 11:40 AM

I will say that I have experienced WAY more issues on flights due to someone else's health choices that are far more inconvenient to me than someone having a support animal.

Acousticado · #33 10-12-2018, 12:08 PM

Where’s Captain Obvious when you need him?

Nymuso · #34 10-12-2018, 12:26 PM

That would not be a flight I would care to be on.

Nyghthawk · #35 10-12-2018, 12:56 PM

Does that mean I can bring my emotional support horny toad with me to Denver now? Guess I would have to check with Frontier Airlines.

rokdog49 · #36 10-12-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I think this is simply a situation of competing interests, one medical issue versus another one.

The problem is that in one case, one form of treatment for the issue, a companion animal, has an impact on others. People with allergies, can in most but not all cases, take a pill to minimize the symptoms. This has no effect on others, except some drowsiness and driving (or similar) problems. Having an animal simply does have an effect on other people, whether it be noise, hair, smell, hygiene, or allergies. It's the old "you can swing your fist as much as you want, but the problem starts when you hit my face" issue.

There is of course going to be a reaction to the rather unconventional idea of a horse, as well as the unsocialized idea of a "therapy animal' within the context of a relatively short amount of time that constitutes a plane trip. What does a therapy animal do? How does this apply to plane trips? What kind of animals are allowed? Why can't they just deal for 2 hours (or whatever the flight time is)?

We all understand service animals for blind people, it's a disability which is usually pretty obvious, and we have empathy for such a serious issue. Emotional needs are not obvious, and easily faked because someone wants to bring their dog or cat on a trip instead of putting them in an expensive and potentially upsetting kennel situation. We don't understand what proof of a medical issue someone would need to bring their animal on a plane. Sounds like it's not exactly rigorous, but really we have no sense of it.

So yeah, something that is easily faked or abused, inconvenient to other passengers, and in the case of a horse, downright absurd-sounding, is going to cause a reaction. Not surprising.

I have allergies and I sure as heck don't want to sit next to someone with a cat. I may not have brought medication. If that person does legitimately have a problem that a cat can solve, they can drive or find another solution. They should not be able to make it my problem. I had panic attacks for years flying, and it would have been awesome to have my dog, but I wouldn't have thought of making my problem someone else's problem. I just had a couple of beers and took an Ativan until I could fly w/o it.

I think it's right to question where this is going. Doesn't mean someone is insensitive (though some certainly will be), it may just mean that their value system is being violated by someone who is willing to make others suffer for their problem. I think the idea of taking responsibility for one's own problems is a value worth discussing.

Thank you for a well-stated position.
I don't hold out much hope for what you proposed in your last sentence.

Basalt Beach · #37 10-12-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I think this is simply a situation of competing interests, one medical issue versus another one.

I believe it is important for both individuals along with air carriers to understand and distinguish Service Animals from Emotional/Support/Therapy Animals and this summer the air carriers have begun to do so. The air carriers recognized the situation was out of control and some individuals were exploiting the situation.

Service animals are defined as dogs (and now miniature horses) that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.This is not the same as an emotional support animal nor are emotional support animals afforded the same protections of the ADA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

There is of course going to be a reaction to the rather unconventional idea of a horse, as well as the unsocialized idea of a "therapy animal' within the context of a relatively short amount of time that constitutes a plane trip. What does a therapy animal do? How does this apply to plane trips? What kind of animals are allowed? Why can't they just deal for 2 hours (or whatever the flight time is)?

The miniature horses covered by the ADA are trained Service animals and do not include those for emotional support.

In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.

Individuals can not simply show up with their animals, they must contact the airlines at least 48 hours before departure and complete several forms.

Emotional support and psychiatric service animals
Emotional support animals provide emotional, psychiatric or cognitive support for individuals with disabilities. Specific disability training isn’t required for animals to meet this classification.

Advance notice required
To travel with an emotional support and psychiatric service animal in the cabin, you must contact the Special Assistance Desk with all required documentation at least 48 hours before your flight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

We all understand service animals for blind people, it's a disability which is usually pretty obvious, and we have empathy for such a serious issue. Emotional needs are not obvious, and easily faked because someone wants to bring their dog or cat on a trip instead of putting them in an expensive and potentially upsetting kennel situation. We don't understand what proof of a medical issue someone would need to bring their animal on a plane. Sounds like it's not exactly rigorous, but really we have no sense of it.

The faking now needs documentation, something missing prior to the changes made this summer by air carriers.

Emotional support and psychiatric service animals
The emotional support and psychiatric service animal document packet contains instructions and 3 forms that are necessary for approval to fly if your ticket was issued on or after July 1, 2018:

Mental Health Professional Form

Behavior Guidelines

Animal Sanitation During 8+ Hours Form (only required if your flight is scheduled to be over 8 hours)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

So yeah, something that is easily faked or abused, inconvenient to other passengers, and in the case of a horse, downright absurd-sounding, is going to cause a reaction. Not surprising.

This summer all the major carriers have instituted changes to cut down on the abuse. This is AA's form required and the other major carriers have all adopted similar requirements.

https://www.aa.com/content/images/tr...ion-packet.pdf

The major air carriers now have restrictions, from AA's website
Animal restrictions

Some animals can’t be permitted as service or emotional support animals due to safety and/or public health risk. If you have questions, contact our special assistance help desk.
Not permitted:

Amphibians

Ferrets

Goats

Hedgehogs

Insects

Reptiles

Rodents

Snakes

Spiders

Sugar gliders

Non-household birds (farm poultry, waterfowl, game birds, & birds of prey)

Animals with tusks, horns or hooves (excluding miniature horses properly trained as service animals)

Any animal that is dirty or has an odor

It is good news that the air carriers have instituted more stringent requirements for individual flying with emotional support animals and it is important for us as passengers to understand what changes have taken place over the past few months.

Dirk Hofman · #38 10-12-2018, 02:22 PM

Good info! Thanks. Glad to hear of the updates, sounds like they're starting to get a handle on it.

KevWind · #39 10-12-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokdog49

What studies do you sight to arbitrarily call an allergic reaction to an animal rare? None. It's just an opinion, a statement born of no facts. I could make the same arbitrary statement about people with an emotional need that has to be rectified by having an animal in a closed area where others have no choice but to put up with it or leave. No facts, just my opinion. Seems pretty fair.
We live in a time where people are becoming more and more obsessed with themselves. I invite you to take a poll. You'll find a consensus on that.
How is it that compassion and consideration has become so one-sided? Perhaps these people who use "comfort animals" for their psyche's would do well to think of the rest of us and "our feelings."
We just won't agree on this.

No it is not a matter of we "just won't agree" You are injecting issues unrelated to the OP and misquoting my statements in order to support your objection.. I did not an "allergic reaction to an animal is rare I said a "hyper allergic reaction" is rare.
First: The OP and my statements are about a service animal (not an emotional support animal) See Basalt Beaches posts
Second: If you reread our exchange you brought in the concept of a hyper allergic reaction by stating a possible "severe" or life threatening" reaction. Most allergic reaction to animal dander is not dangerous or life threatening.
Most people with the typical dander allergic reaction could simply pop an antihistamine and ask to be assigned a different seat.

So yes we probably disagree BUT first we need to define what it is that we disagree about. And speak to what the other has actually said, not inject some side issue, or misstating what is said .

jhmulkey · #40 10-13-2018, 07:35 AM

Seems like some people didn't read the article. The miniature horses being allowed are service animals for people with disabilities, not emotional support animals.

Quote:

Why?
To aid flyers with disabilities. Miniature horses have been used more in recent years as guides for people with a disability, most notably those who are blind because horses have superb vision. Mini horses can live up to 30 years and can be a good alternative for those in need of a service animal, but might be allergic to cats or dogs.

Quote:

Can a Horse Be Your Emotional Support Animal on Alaska Airlines?
No. In its press release, the airline was very firm in its stance that emotional support animals are still only limited to a cat or dog.

rokdog49 · #41 10-13-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind

No it is not a matter of we "just won't agree" You are injecting issues unrelated to the OP and misquoting my statements in order to support your objection.. I did not an "allergic reaction to an animal is rare I said a "hyper allergic reaction" is rare.
First: The OP and my statements are about a service animal (not an emotional support animal) See Basalt Beaches posts
Second: If you reread our exchange you brought in the concept of a hyper allergic reaction by stating a possible "severe" or life threatening" reaction. Most allergic reaction to animal dander is not dangerous or life threatening.
Most people with the typical dander allergic reaction could simply pop an antihistamine and ask to be assigned a different seat.

So yes we probably disagree BUT first we need to define what it is that we disagree about. And speak to what the other has actually said, not inject some side issue, or misstating what is said .

Thanks, I think I'll just pass.
Have a great day.