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  #31  
Old 05-30-2020, 09:31 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Regarding offset soundholes and perception: if you say "guitar" most people will get an image in their mind. For some it will be a Les Paul or a Strat, but many will visualize a generic acoustic with the soundhole in the middle. Some manufacturers have embraced the offset soundhole - not only for the better experience it provides the player, but also for the fact that you are not taking a bite out of the middle of the top, where the majority of the sound in our acoustic guitars originates.

We've had a couple centuries of conditioning that the soundhole in the middle is the way it should be. Some forward-thinking manufacturers are providing options with offset soundholes and sound-ports (or in Emerald's case: a soundhole that opens up as well as out). The soundhole on the Lava Me guitars seems less than optimal to me: taking length out of the top, but not big enough to reach inside to access a pickup/battery. But, I remember the multiple small soundholes in the upper bout of some Ovations, and they got the job done. Each manufacturer picks their take on it, and the public votes with their dollars.

For Tony: I wasn't immediately enamored with offset soundholes when I first saw them. Back when Michael had McNichols guitar shop in the Salt Lake City area, he did a set up for me on the RainSong I had at the time. I wasn't interested in another guitar, but he suggested I play those on display while I waited. That was the first time I saw an Emerald guitar... I remember thinking those and the Blackbird Rider seemed different, just for the sake of being different. The X5 I played seemed unusually small; I couldn't get the Rider to sit on my lap. The CA Cargo had a nice tone for a small guitar, but the scale seemed cramped. I left there with my RS Shorty playing much better and happy to have what, to me, was a "normal looking guitar."

I chuckle now when I think back to that experience. It may have planted a seed that reached the sunlight when I ordered that first Emerald (a previous generation X7). What an eye-opening experience.

I have never cared much what anyone else thought of any guitar I've owned. I keep a guitar based on what it does for me. I played an ES-335 when the rest of the rock world played Les Pauls. I played an Ovation when other acoustic fans thought Martin was the only way to go. Someone doesn't understand the value of an offset soundhole... it isn't my place to inform them, unless they ask. Is my guitar "better" than yours or vice versa? I can't say what's better for anyone other than what works for me.

I have had the opportunity to play most of the CF guitars out there, but haven't seen a Lava Me in person. The style and construction doesn't do much for me, but the market will decide if they're onto something.
Maybe I am odd man out on these kinds of things, but to me, where the sound hole is or how the top looks is really a non-issue compared to how the guitar plays and sounds. I really didn't put much weight in my comments about the wood veneer tops on the Emeralds. It was more of an "Aha!" moment when I realized what seemed just a bit out of place.

This is again the problem I am constantly butting heads with in forums - a post conveys very little of the actual intended communication. With a groups of us standing around talking about guitars, that comment would have just been made in passing and the response would have been more along the lines of "Hmmm, I didn't think of that" or something similar.

Instead, commenting on it in a forum, it is in a post and becomes front and center in that post and it doesn't just go on by ans spoken words do. We have no idea how much weight the poster put on the comment, and tend to focus on it, more often than not, taking it to a much larger place in the conversation than it was intended.

Tony
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  #32  
Old 05-30-2020, 10:43 AM
Frettingflyer Frettingflyer is offline
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AC, Thank you for the very informative post and taking the time to research. I didnít do any research on CF construction, but have really enjoyed owning a series of them with, it turns out, some different construction methods and techniques.
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  #33  
Old 05-30-2020, 12:31 PM
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Did some reading on the CF pellet vs CF fabric differences, and this is my best distillation.
Excellent writeup, AC - thanks for taking the time to put this together.

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Part of this high cost is the specialized equipment necessary. It's designed for the super high temperatures and high pressure needed to use the specialized molds properly. These molds will be expensive also. This also drives the costs very high.
I wonder if there's a parent company behind Lava that already had this equipment, and was looking for another market. In other words, the investment has already been made, allowing Lava to break in at a much lower price point.

Just some idle Saturday afternoon speculation...
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  #34  
Old 05-30-2020, 12:48 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Tony, I think you and I are the only ones talking about this, and I can assure you that any comments you make about an Emerald veneer looking like furniture doesn't bother or effect me in any way. I laughed about that. You said it, we discussed it, nobody needs to get worked up about it. From what you are writing, I take it you think this is a big deal if someone comments about something you said. It isn't. Me commenting about Emerald's veneers was no more significant than your comment. If you want to discuss it more, I'm good with that. If you want to let it go, even better.

If our paths ever cross, I'll let you play my Emerald and maybe you'll let me play your Sable? We can talk and laugh and make some music. Maybe we can find someone with a Lava Me (the original post on this thread) and we'll let him join in, too. No RainSongs, though - I draw the line there. Yeah, I'm kidding. It's what I do. Any guitar players would be welcome, even those old fashioned wood players. No banjos, though - we need to have some standards.

That's all the smilies I can come up with to convey humor.
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  #35  
Old 05-30-2020, 12:56 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Tony, I think you and I are the only ones talking about this, and I can assure you that any comments you make about an Emerald veneer looking like furniture doesn't bother or effect me in any way. I laughed about that. You said it, we discussed it, nobody needs to get worked up about it. From what you are writing, I take it you think this is a big deal if someone comments about something you said. It isn't. Me commenting about Emerald's veneers was no more significant than your comment. If you want to discuss it more, I'm good with that. If you want to let it go, even better.

If our paths ever cross, I'll let you play my Emerald and maybe you'll let me play your Sable? We can talk and laugh and make some music. Maybe we can find someone with a Lava Me (the original post on this thread) and we'll let him join in, too. No RainSongs, though - I draw the line there. Yeah, I'm kidding. It's what I do. Any guitar players would be welcome, even those old fashioned wood players. No banjos, though - we need to have some standards.

That's all the smilies I can come up with to convey humor.
Well, putting it into perspective, look at the news about what is going on in my city (Minneapolis) and then think about a forum discussion about wood veneer on a carbon fiber guitar.

I think we can both agree on the relative importance of each.

For me, it would be FAR more enjoyable to get together in person where real communication can happen and we can try each other's guitars. I can't imagine how either of us wouldn't be the better for it.

Tony
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  #36  
Old 05-30-2020, 02:42 PM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
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The Lava Me Pro looks interesting.



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  #37  
Old 05-30-2020, 02:58 PM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
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And how does it compare to a Rainsong? Skip to 12:10 for the actual comparison.

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  #38  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:02 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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And how does it compare to a Rainsong? Skip to 12:10 for the actual comparison.
It sounds great next to the Rainsong. That's the model I used to have and I loved the tone on it so to me that's saying something for the Lava.
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  #39  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:10 PM
jdinaz jdinaz is offline
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I prefer the RS tone by a lot....plus it's hard for me to get past the looks of the Lava. Looks huge and uncomfortable.
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  #40  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:18 PM
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And how does it compare to a Rainsong? Skip to 12:10 for the actual comparison.
They sound different. Both are perfectly acceptable in this format.

Neither are particularly impressive. Not a great demo.
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  #41  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:38 PM
jdinaz jdinaz is offline
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May be my speakers. The RS sounds good to me....sounds a lot like a RS. The Lava sounds dull and not as lively in comparison.
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  #42  
Old 06-01-2020, 08:22 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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I prefer the RS tone by a lot....plus it's hard for me to get past the looks of the Lava. Looks huge and uncomfortable.
The sound hole style is certainly odd looking. I wouldn't want to be the one reaching in there I might never get my hand back.
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  #43  
Old 06-01-2020, 10:51 AM
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The sound hole style is certainly odd looking. I wouldn't want to be the one reaching in there I might never get my hand back.
This is why I have a wife and daughter....
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  #44  
Old 06-01-2020, 01:48 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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This is why I have a wife and daughter....
That is one way to find a wife, make sure her hand fits in the hole of your guitar for battery changing. Why or why didn't I think of that? It is too late for me now after 37 years of marriage, but for those not yet married, this is a valuable tip.

Tony
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  #45  
Old 06-01-2020, 03:55 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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This is why I have a wife and daughter....
Good point, though there's still potential for my wife's hand to get stuck in there. My 2 year old daughter should be fine though
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