#1
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Center seam opening
Anybody having trouble with the center seam on recent Martin guitars opening up? (or other brands?) My luthier thinks it may be wood not seasoned well enough to keep up with production in the Covid boom. Maybe manufacturers will have to follow the practice of violin makers in the past and torrify everything?
The guitar in question is kept in it's case with two Humidipacks. But if you're going to play a guitar it has to be out of the case some of the time. Any feedback from others with this experience is appreciated.
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NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKIES |
#2
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Extremely unlikely that the wood was not dried correctly prior to building, main stream manufacturers have huge money invested in wood prep and storage areas.
Guitars split on join lines typically when exposed to varying weather conditions Steve
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |
#3
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I would guess that Martin has a few years supply of wood ahead of what they are currently building at any time. If you are being honest and you keep the guitar humidified correctly and didn't for example forget about that time you took the guitar camping in the desert? Then it could just be some bad luck. If it's new to you then you can probably have it fixed.
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#4
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#5
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Agreed. "Drying" is a different process that "seasoning". Drying reduces the moisture content in wood from "green" to a suitable equilibrium moisture content, typically about 6 to 8% for many woodworking applications. Wood needs to be at an appropriate equilibrium moisture content for longevity of things made of wood. The drying process can be relatively short, if a kiln is used. If air-dried, as much of instrument-making wood is, it will take as long as a few years from green to ready-to-use. The usual cause of a guitar top to crack is shrinkage of the guitar top. The usual cause for shrinkage is reduced moisture content - becoming drier than the humidity at which it was made. Simply throwing two Humidipacks in a case might not provide sufficient moisture control. Having your guitar top crack/separate is one indicator that it is not. If you don't already have one, purchase an inexpensive hygrometer so that you know what the actual humidity level is. You can then compare that to recommended humidity levels for that instrument. |
#6
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A few years back, I bought a new HD 28. Took it home, played it for a week in my humidified guitar room, and the center s seam separated. I took it back to the dealer, who agreed it was a defective guitar. They took it back and got me a new guitar.
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#7
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https://maestronet.com/forum/index.p...fied-tonewood/ Some inaccurate information though.
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Fred |
#8
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By "traditional", I meant 1700's era.
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#9
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Anyway, the French did it quite a bit with mixed results; some baking, some chemistry. Not trying to do anything but inquire. The "drying" seasoning - semantics. Normal care (with hygrometer as a guide) Normal use - they have to come out of the case sometime to be played. I tried 24/7 misting (that's a joke, by the way) -- come on, we live in the world not a lab.
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NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKIES |
#10
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Bad luck may be the best explanation, but I'm asking the question to get information, not flippant assumptions. I appreciate the fact that your response was neutral and informing. Thanks
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NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKIES |
#11
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> I'm not aware of traditional violin makers using wood that has undergone torrefaction. <
There's at least one; he posts regularly over at MN. Seems like quite a sharp guy. |
#12
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I don’t think that the use of torrefied material qualifies as truly “traditional” violin making. You can build using traditional techniques, as many have done using non-traditional materials, and non-traditional designs, and non-traditional technology, but I don’t feel that truly qualifies as traditional violin making.
But back to OP - center seam opening is a real problem because that joint, between the top plates, is incredibly thin and relies on just that tiny band of glue to stay together. Any contamination of those edges, or a problem with the glue, or a failure to get a perfect straight join, or inadequate clamping, can all lead to a failure of that joint even without dealing with humidification or improper bracing or accidental impact. Luckily, its also usually a simple repair that can be done nearly invisibly, as long as its addressed quickly and before any dirt or contaminants can get into the joint. Reinforcements can also be added behind the joint to give it a little extra strength. This is one of the reasons players will say a really great guitar is one that skirts the edge of failure - making all the parts as thin & light as possible, yet still strong enough to withstand the forces of tuning it up and playing.
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More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#13
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center seam opening
Thanks, Tadol -- just got the guitar back yesterday. Will proceed to try and resolve the issue with local help. None available from Martin or the dealer. It will not stay around my space much longer regardless. It just ticks me off every time I am reminded, and that merely does me harm to no purpose. It will probably end up donated after whatever remedy is chosen by folks here. Whoever gets it will know about the issue and that it may reoccur -- but also know that it's a free guitar. My wife and I often donate a guitar or two each year, so this will be one for 2020. Irony.
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NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKIES |
#14
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When the guitar was built, it had the lowest moisture it will ever have and since it's birthday, it's been soaking up moisture. DON'T OVER HUMIDIFY YOUR GUITAR. That can do as much or more damage to a guitar than not humidifying it at all. Quick temperature change is also a danger going like from cold outside to a hot inside environment. Humidity is not the problem. I know that is heresy but it's the truth as I see it. Ron |
#15
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The manufacturer has declined warranty on it, the store has declined warranty on it, we have suggested its an issue related to humidity, this is best assumption given the facts you have supplied Steve
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |