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  #1  
Old 12-03-2015, 04:32 PM
cross731 cross731 is offline
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Default Martin M-36 Dual Pickup setup

Hello,

I'm looking into installing a pickup system for my Martin M-36. I'm going to be playing with a band. I strum for most of the time. I'm looking for pickups that will help me cut through the mix. I'm thinking of installing a dual-pickup system with the K&K Pure Mini and the Sunrise. I was thinking of running both pickups through a Dtar Solstice preamp.

I like the fact that both pickups have great reviews and both will leave the guitar unscathed - no extra drilling required for the installation. Has anyone have any experience with both pickups installed in the M-36? I can't find any resource that demos both pickups in this guitar. How would you setup your guitar for a live band?

One caveat is that you can't drill additional holes into the guitar. I know that it's a trivial subject and there are debates about this all over the web and I realize that there are people who would opt to drill a hole for an undersaddle piezo pickup, which I respect. I'm more than happy to discuss that topic on a different thread. But for this project, I'd like to keep the guitar as close to factory condition. How would you go about it?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2015, 11:13 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Unless you have a professional soundman running the board for your band, I wouldn't try this with the K&K... they aren't extremely sensitive to feedback, but in a full band environment, I don't think they'd perform as well as you'd like...

The Sunrise, I think, would be fine, as would most UST or soundhole (magnetic type) pickups. Depending upon the UST you have, you may or may not need that Solstice in the signal chain, unless you truly need a DI box to run through a snake to the mixing board... (Ooops! Just read the "no UST drilling" part of your thread...)

You might check out one of the Seymour Duncan Mag-Mic pickups; mounts in the soundhole, has a mag pickup and a mic, with the facility of blending the two signals plus a volume control... of all the sound hole pickups I tried, I liked this one best. I was not so fond of the M series from Baggs... another option might be the Trance Audio Acoustic Lens system, the mono one (I believe you can have the preamp outside the guitar, in lieu of mounting it inside...

One of our members is Doug Young... besides being a really good player, he also writes articles for different magazines and does a bunch of pickup reviews... on his website, he has (literally) dozens upon dozens of soundclips with different guitars, different pickups, many in combination, always with a similar piece played through a couple really good microphones... it's a great place to start your search!

By the way, I like the K&K in a lot of situations, and have one in my Goodall Grand Concert... but I wouldn't think of using it in a full band at any sort of volume levels...

Oh, and Hey! Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Forum! Just noticed it is your very first post!!!
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Last edited by jseth; 12-03-2015 at 11:20 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2015, 04:20 PM
cross731 cross731 is offline
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Thanks for the insight, jseth. I'll check out the Mag-Mic and start from there. Doug Young's website is a good resource as well. Thanks for sharing that. Below is the link for those who are in the same path as I am.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:37 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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The K&K alone wouldn't be the best choice for a full band. However, there's no reason why a K&K and Sunrise set up wouldn't work out well. You could get the feedback resistance from the Sunrise and natural tone from the K&K. Tom Petty for example uses the Lr Baggs beam and M1 and they get very loud.
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Old 12-05-2015, 11:39 AM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
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When I think of "cut through the mix" pickups I don't think of either the K&K or the Sunrise. Both of those pickups strike me as solo/duo player type systems. For a band situation I think of UST or LR Baggs M1(A). In a band it's more about texture than about hi-fi nuance, in my opinion.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:26 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akafloyd View Post
When I think of "cut through the mix" pickups I don't think of either the K&K or the Sunrise. Both of those pickups strike me as solo/duo player type systems. For a band situation I think of UST or LR Baggs M1(A). In a band it's more about texture than about hi-fi nuance, in my opinion.
Interesting, the M1 is just another magnetic pickup so I am not sure how it would differ all that much from the Sunrise? I know the Sunrise is known for having a natural tone but it still has that magnetic sound that is feedback resistant and cuts through a mix.
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:44 PM
pdivs pdivs is offline
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I have the K&K and Sunrise set up in my Larivee OM-9. I use it in both a band situation and solo and never had any issues. I think they compliment each other very well. I haven't used this set up with a Solstice but have used a Solstice in the past and don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to eq and balance the different outputs to get the sound you're looking for.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:40 PM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Interesting, the M1 is just another magnetic pickup so I am not sure how it would differ all that much from the Sunrise? I know the Sunrise is known for having a natural tone but it still has that magnetic sound that is feedback resistant and cuts through a mix.
Yeah, I've never used a sunrise but have seen it in use by many performers in solo/duo situations and it has always been relatively dark. Maybe that was situation specific? It never struck me as having "cut through the mix" kind of tone. I have k&k pickups in my guitars and wouldn't characterize them that way either. I have used the M1A and found it to be quite bright, more so than the examples of sunrise performers I've seen, and believe it would do what the op asks quite well and it will reforms better than some other magnetics I've experienced. fwiw ymmv etc...
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:53 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
The K&K alone wouldn't be the best choice for a full band. However, there's no reason why a K&K and Sunrise set up wouldn't work out well. You could get the feedback resistance from the Sunrise and natural tone from the K&K. Tom Petty for example uses the Lr Baggs beam and M1 and they get very loud.
I've been experimenting with a Headway co-axial UST and iBeam combo lately. A blend of about 30% iBeam is definitely appealing to me, with respect to tone. I'm glad to learn that someone has been able to use the iBeam, as part of a dual system, in a band context. It seems to be the most universally despised pickup on this forum, but I've heard it work well (at moderate amplification levels, at least) in several guitars.
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2015, 11:32 AM
cross731 cross731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdivs View Post
I have the K&K and Sunrise set up in my Larivee OM-9. I use it in both a band situation and solo and never had any issues. I think they compliment each other very well. I haven't used this set up with a Solstice but have used a Solstice in the past and don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to eq and balance the different outputs to get the sound you're looking for.
pdivs, which preamp are you using for your setup?
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2015, 12:01 PM
cross731 cross731 is offline
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Everyone, thanks for the wonderful feedback. I'll definitely look into the M1A as well.

The reason I picked the Pure mini and Sunrise is partly because they're passive pickups, along with the fact that they sound good. I've used active pickups in the past and I tend to forget that they have batteries, especially during a performance. I've been caught plugging in just to find out that the pickup needs new batteries. I understand that it's not an excuse, but I'd like to eliminate that in the equation as much as possible. It would be ideal for me to have an active pickup that's phantom powered.

In regards to the K&K and Sunrise, I was planning on using the Solstice to EQ them. I've heard that that people use this pickup combo and crossing over the bass of the Sunrise with the treble of the K&K with desired results. This solution also reduces the feedback from the K&K. It sounds like the tone that both pickups produce is dark and won't cut through the mix?

What are some preamps you use for dual-pickup setups?
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2015, 03:07 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I've been experimenting with a Headway co-axial UST and iBeam combo lately. A blend of about 30% iBeam is definitely appealing to me, with respect to tone. I'm glad to learn that someone has been able to use the iBeam, as part of a dual system, in a band context. It seems to be the most universally despised pickup on this forum, but I've heard it work well (at moderate amplification levels, at least) in several guitars.
I actually just wrote to the guitar player for a pretty famous Canadian performer that I follow to see what gear he uses. For a few years I have been going to their shows and have always been blown away by their acoustic tone. It's very natural, does not quack, sounds huge and is not harsh at all. They either tour as a duo act or with a full band with this system. Luckily, he actually wrote back and told me that both of them use the Lr Baggs iMix pickup. I was actually pretty shocked but it goes to show just how good the ibeam can sound.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2015, 04:11 PM
pdivs pdivs is offline
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Cross,
I'm going into a Sunrise SB-2 with the Sunrise going out to the board and the K&K going to a K&K pure xlr preamp then to the board. I could probably get away without the K&K preamp but I like having the ability to tweak the sound close at hand.

p
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2015, 04:14 PM
pdivs pdivs is offline
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As an addendum I just read your post about the bass of the Sunrise and the treble of the K&K. Interesting because I like the shimmer of the Sunrise (the Sunrise preamp definitely intensifies this) and the bass response of the K&K.

p
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dimarzio angel, m-36, martin, sunrise

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