Private Sale, international shipping, CITES...so many questions!

[Eucatastrophe]

I’m hoping to glean some advice from those of you who have dared to buy and sell internationally. I have the opportunity to buy a marvelous McIlroy guitar but it’s in Italy an I’m in the USA. It’ll be a private sale and this will be the first time both the seller and I have shipped/received internationally. We have had good open communication so far but the process itself is still a bit confusing.

So here’s something’s I need help with:

1. Shipping. Is there a service you would recommend? UPS, Fed Ex, Mailboxes Etc?

2. CITES. Yes the guitar is beautiful East Indian Rosewood!! Of course! It was built in 2012 and has a “birth certificate” indicating so. Is a permit necessary for a private sale?

3. Import/export fees. Are these included in the shipping fee depending on the carriers? Are these due in private sale or just retailers? How are they normally collected?

4. What else should I consider?


Thanks for all your help!!

Josh

[Tony Burns]

from experience -have them double box it with alot of padding -
look into getting here ASAP ( check out all possible shipping senarios ) -the less time its in transit , the less time it has to go threw hell .
Also -have the end pin taken out of the guitar - if the end gets struck the end pin forced in can split a guitar .
Their is more to it than this -but this is a start.

[mawmow]

I may be wrong, but here are my sound advices.

First of all : Is buying from Italy secure ? I read here and there it may not be so.
If you are in USA, just be patient. I am in Canada and patience always paid.

If the deal appears too good to be true... I once turned down an offer from an address in a restaurant from a guy pretending to be in UK that pretended he had worked in nearby Quebec city : he wanted 500$ for a gorgeous Bourgeois : Too good to be true !

Buying through eB or reverb is mandatory : I would not buy directly from any unknown private owner anywhere in the world. I would ship only to a secure Paypal adress.

I do not like importation brokers when I buy from USA : they add importation fee and USPS always worked alright. But, from overseas, I would use a broker as an insurance as I would not ask a guitar to be simply posted from overseas.

As far as I know, CITES urges you to get a licence for a rosewood guitar...

Double boxing is a must.

We sometimes have to restrain from buying a dream guitar as dreams may drive to nightmares...

[peter.coombe]

If the guitar contains Rosewood then you do need CITES documentation. The sender needs to get the documentation. There is a proposal to change the CITES rules on finished music instruments containing Rosewood, but it has not been implemented yet.

[Dwight]

Their are plenty of used guitars available in the USA. I don't understand why you would take so many risks in a foreign transaction.

[Eucatastrophe]

Very good comments so far!

Double boxing is a great idea and a good reminder.

It’s definitely not a deal too good to be true. As a fellow (previous) Mcilroy owner I have been in talks with this owner for months and had said in passing once if he ever decided to sell I’d be interested. And now he is. The guitar is essentially what I’d be looking for in another Mcilroy. there’s just so few around that my only other option would be to commission one and wait about year and spend about $1000 more.

But you’re right about the risks so I’m hoping some will chime in with some happy stories instead or horror stories

[Brucebubs]

As Peter said, the sender needs to provide the pre-CITES certificate - not the buyer.

I applied for one here in Australia for a 2009 model rosewood Martin I was selling to a USA buyer.
Certificates are free but applications can take weeks to process.
As the applicant I needed to provide the buyers name and address plus a description of the item, it's origin, build date and date originally shipped into Australia and by whom.
Martin Guitars were able to supply a lot of that information.
The USA buyer found the same guitar Stateside so the sale didn't go through.
I kept the certificate for several months then returned it marked 'Unused'.

All details are on file if I need to re-apply.

I've had several guitars shipped to me from USA.
USPS, Fed-Ex and my Rickenbacker bass just last November was sent with UPS. ( Shout out to 'Olivia's Vintage Guitars' for superb double boxing and packing! )

The UPS and Fed-Ex shipments provided the best tracking.
One USPS shipment had some slight box damage which lightly scuffed the hard case but the guitar was fine.

P.s. If you do go through with the sale ask the seller to send you pictures of the guitar being boxed up so you can see how it was packaged and what condition the box is in when it leaves the seller - may prove vital if you receive a damaged box and need to make a claim for some reason, proves item was damaged in transit.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by Eucatastrophe

Very good comments so far!

Double boxing is a great idea and a good reminder.

It’s definitely not a deal too good to be true. As a fellow (previous) Mcilroy owner I have been in talks with this owner for months and had said in passing once if he ever decided to sell I’d be interested. And now he is. The guitar is essentially what I’d be looking for in another Mcilroy. there’s just so few around that my only other option would be to commission one and wait about year and spend about $1000 more.

But you’re right about the risks so I’m hoping some will chime in with some happy stories instead or horror stories

Sorry...but especially with the Cities changes requiring documentation on Indian Rosewood guitar imports, there are just too many dangerous to you variables to offer you good stories.

Even well established guitar companies have been having issues with the necessary Cities documentation being in order...and/or...the customs department officials properly understanding the new protocols and executing them properly. Shipments have been held up in customs, paperwork fiasco's needing time and effort to straighten out. And these are companies who know what they are doing, and do it all the time, and have been doing so for many many years.

Unless the seller is VERY WELL VERSED in the Cities regulations and necessary paperwork...AND...how to fill it out absolutely properly, you have the makings of a real horror story on this deal.

You really wanna risk your hard earned $$$ on a bunch of maybe's and what if's.

Walk away son...walk away...

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Osage]

I ship a lot of gear internationally, including guitars and guitar parts. I probably ship 20 things a month overseas, all via USPS Priority International. I will ship everywhere in the world except for Italy! It's like a black hole for packages. Stuff usually shows up but often disappears for literally months with no tracking updates etc... I had so many problems with Italy that I just flat out refuse to ship there any longer. YMMV as they say but I know I'm not alone in having problems shipping to Italy.

[1303]

Originally Posted by Osage

I ship a lot of gear internationally, including guitars and guitar parts. I probably ship 20 things a month overseas, all via USPS Priority International. I will ship everywhere in the world except for Italy! It's like a black hole for packages. Stuff usually shows up but often disappears for literally months with no tracking updates etc... I had so many problems with Italy that I just flat out refuse to ship there any longer. YMMV as they say but I know I'm not alone in having problems shipping to Italy.

May I ask the cost to ship an acoustic guitar from the US to Australia?

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Osage

I ship a lot of gear internationally, including guitars and guitar parts. I probably ship 20 things a month overseas, all via USPS Priority International. I will ship everywhere in the world except for Italy! It's like a black hole for packages. Stuff usually shows up but often disappears for literally months with no tracking updates etc... I had so many problems with Italy that I just flat out refuse to ship there any longer. YMMV as they say but I know I'm not alone in having problems shipping to Italy.

I see that one specific exception (no shipping to Italy) quite a lot on ebay (from US based sellers).

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by 1303

May I ask the cost to ship an acoustic guitar from the US to Australia?

I budget somewhere between US$200 to US$300 ... and welcome to the AGF.

[MChild62]

I don’t think it’s a problem of Italy as much as shipping to a country outside the EU and also the rules for importing into the USA. Also complicated by the fact that you are buying used, so the declared value will be more subjective when facing scrutiny in customs. There are shipping services in Italy like Mailboxes Etc that in theory can advise on what’s required to get something to the USA (and will get quotes from companies like DHL), and it would be good to contact a couple of for advice and quotes that include requirements for documentation, duties, and insurance. Your seller may well get differ advice (not just quotes) from different shipping services.
But the surest and possibly cheapest way to get the guitar is to just buy a ticket to Italy and come pick it up yourself and fly home with it.
Shipping INTO Italy, by contrast, is a different matter and customs will let things into the country but can be random in what they hold up and the duties they impose.
Here’s a useful link for your Italian seller (and yes rather than rely on having a super informed customs inspector you’d want to include documentation showing the item is not subject to restrictions on cross border sales): https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.sp...Fhs_amp%3Dtrue

[gitarro]

If you wait a while, the rules requiring cites permits for eirw guitars may be abolished in the next cites meeting. It was supposed to go on in Colombo Sri Lanka's at the end of this month but the conference had to be postponed due to security concerns as a result of the recent terrorism incident there.

Buying from international sellers isn't an issue if you take common sense precautions- buyers and sellers are no more or less honest than if they were in he states and there are scammers dverywhere.

[Conomor]

I've imported a few new and used guitars from the US into New Zealand. The fees that apply here on top of shipping fees (averaging around NZ$150-200, that's around US$100-130) include:

• GST (Goods & Sales Tax) levied at 15% of the item price and shipping cost
• An import transaction fee
• GST on the import transaction fee
• A bio-security levy
• GST on the bio-security levy
• An optional fixed customs broker fee

None of these are refundable if the item is returned.

I don't how similar it would be for a US buyer importing from overseas, but do your homework to avoid any nasty surprises.

I avoid any CITES complications by not buying anything with rosewood. It's too much trouble.

Importing is an expensive hassle, but the choice (and the deals) available to US buyers is so much greater than what i can get here. Browsing US websites makes me feel like an urchin in some Dickens novel, grubby face pushed against the store window and marveling at all the things I can't have.