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We're picking up into a side conversation here I think.* If I read the OP right, she's a beginning performer who has had her development as stage performer interrupted by the current virus crisis.
My (albeit, I'm but an observant outsider) view of the current music industry is that I wouldn't encourage a performer near the beginning of whatever career they'll have (like Winifred) to make a record in a professional studio that soon. I doubt she's in a genre that can develop a sizeable streaming revenue without continuing on her current performance track and working out her style there and how she wants to present herself and her songs first. If I'm missing something there, others with more experience in the current scene can make their case, and I'll step aside for their important first hand experience. I reiterate what I suggested for feedback from the more experienced: I think making videos of a cheap and cheerful variety in the current situation could let Winifred start to self-audit her performance style and repertoire, and the exercise of choosing which ones to post on YouTube or the like could help her practice more about how she wants to present her act and songs. Secondarily she might get some useful feedback (and learn how to throw out the Internet heckler noise). That's my reading of where she's at. What say you, more experienced ones? *Jim1960's point may be irrelevant to Winifred right now, but I appreciated considering his point on home recording vs studio for those seeking recording results rather than performing. Also Silly M and Glenn's posts are great posts about the current YouTube scene for them (and others in similar positions) performing and putting themselves out there in genre's often spoken about on this forum.
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses.... |
#17
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Knowing what I know now, if my goal was strictly to be a performer, I'd skip the home studio thing and record in a pro studio. I'd want all my time to go into developing my performance craft. I caught the home studio bug because when I recorded a cd 20 years ago, I really enjoyed the production aspect of the process and wanted to do some stuff on my own in that regard.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#18
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#19
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I was worried that we might be confusing the OP, who seemed to be asking about transitioning from open mics to the next performing step which would normally be café or other small venue shows that are now closed down for the crisis, and so if there's any value instead (at her early career point) in posting videos. This side conversation about choices for folks looking for quality sound recordings is actually interesting to some (others) of us, particularly since you seem to have some experience to share from your path in acquiring considerable home recording gear. Maybe an new thread?
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses.... |
#20
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I wager most home recordists haven't spent nearly that much money. I've been doing it for some time, and my investment in recording gear is more like $600 than $60,000. You can get very good results without spending a lot these days.
What you can't do immediately, even with money being no object, is get the experience to use that $600 or $60,000 worth of equipment effectively. I have the advantage of having been involved in music and recording for decades, even if not at a professional level. For someone who is just getting started--and may not even know if that knowledge and effort is something they want to pursue--home vs studio recording is a decision that involves more than mere dollars. |
#21
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I don't think you need to spend $60K on video and home recording equipment to be effective on YouTube. But I do think you need to spend more than $200.
Presenting yourself at least somewhat professionally on YouTube is very helpful to get views and subscribers, but some people are very effective without a particularly professional approach. YouTube is a young person's medium, so it helps to be young. It also helps to be very, very talented so that people want their friends to see or hear what you are doing. And finally, it helps to be good looking. If you meet all three of those criteria, then you probably don't have to spend $60K on equipment. You could start with a $200 Zoom camera, but you probably will not be happy with that after a while. I don't know what the minimum that is needed to be able to make videos that are good enough to attract viewers. I'd guess that the starting point is somewhere around $2-5K. It's not cheap. $500 for an entry level computer interface, $1200 for a powerful enough computer and a couple of decent video monitors, $1000 for a couple of entry level active monitor speakers, $1500 for two small diaphragm condenser (SDC) mics and for one decent large diaphragm condenser (LDC) mic, $300 for entry level mic stands and some cables, $200 for entry level software, $1500 for two decent HD video cameras, $500 for sound treatment for your bedroom walls... So we are up to... $6700. I am making quick estimates here, but you can see how it adds up. You can certainly spend less money, but $200 doesn't scratch the surface. You could buy a Tascam multi-track digital recorder for $500 and a couple of low-cost LDC mics and buy a $700 camera and with mic stands and cables maybe spend only ~$1500. You still need a computer to do video editing. Having a video made by a studio is going to be even more expensive, however. Studio time can vary from $50 to $500 per hour. The time to make one pro level video could easily cost about $20K. A person could buy an awful lot of very good equipment for that kind of money. I have always felt that it made more sense to buy decent equipment and learn how to do it, to become a resource for yourself. If you become a resource for yourself, you can be a resource for others, too. You never know how you might use these skills. I'm using mine a lot right now to help some local organizations during this shelter-in-place period. I know that a lot of musicians don't want to deal with becoming their own technician, but if you do, it is worth a lot of money over time. - Glenn
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My You Tube Channel |
#22
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Winfred
As does happen here the discussion has blossomed I would agree that deciding wether or not you want to invest the time and money in learning to record and video yourself OR not is the first thing to do. Because as others have noted if you go down this route it will take time and money and will end up being more than a one time $200 for a camera purchase . That said however: I just went back and reread and finally picked up on this : Quote:
Because the mic pres, converters, and interface capability on the Scarlett will are what you will want to use for the Audio portion of your videos as soon as you afford 1 or 2 mics . ALSO regardless of whether or not you decide to DIY or go to a pro studio ...... In reading your replies I also picked up the lengths of songs you are talking about. I would advise that especially for an introductory song ( as well as the majority of your songs thereafter Covers or Original ) make them 3:30 minutes or shorter. Do not start off with a 9:00 minute song..... "How well" that might go over at an open mic is irrelevant, YouTube is completely different universe. There are very specific reasons that almost without exception , "radio ready" versions of songs are 3:30 or shorter. The true genius in songwriting is taking complex subjects and observations of life, and making them simple , short and to point, with as few words as possible.
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 04-04-2020 at 08:18 AM. |
#23
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Unknown songwriter making video, posting on YouTube a good idea?
Just my perspective:
My band’s videos often get thousands of views on Facebook and little to none on YouTube. We have songs on Spotify with >10k streams that on YouTube currently have 106 views. We made, I think, $75 on streaming platforms of all kinds in 2019. Record your stuff and put it out there because you love it and want to share it and be happy if you get some streams/views. Look through my post history in “Show and Tell” for the quality of our videos, which are 50/50 shot professionally and recorded in our studio vs just on an iPhone for video and an Apogee One for audio. Last edited by midwinter; 04-13-2020 at 10:29 AM. |
#24
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Thanks for taking the time to respond! Top of the Day! Winfred |
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Thanks very much for your response! I would like to find you on YouTube, but if you don't want to reveal that, that's fine... or to me in a private message. What kind of video equipment did you use on YouTube? It seems like you had yourself as the subject with the whole video. I was thinking if viewers just saw me the whole song it would be boring. I'm thinking of doing my version of "Both Sides Now" by Joni Mitchell and having a brief shot of me at the beginning and at the end, maybe 30 seconds each shot. I don't at all know how I'm going do it,but I plan to patch in clips of cloud formations videos from one of those free sites. I saw clips of about 1 minute for free and just have a series of those. Is that a good idea, or is actually having the musician seen through the whole video best? Maybe I can find you with your cover song titles you mention. I like Glenn Campbell songs you mention... actually written by Jimmy Webb. It was funny in an interview with Jimmy he said he was working on, "Witchita Lineman" and sent an early draft to Glenn. Once he was finished with the song he called Glenn he was finished and Glenn said, "It's done! Already finished!" ha! That's the way we all heard it, and early draft ha! Thanks Again! Winfred |
#26
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#27
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Wow, you artists and actual technicians in sound, are phenomenal here. This is so great all of you!!!! I was actually laughing at myself as I read some of the realities about being a musician and trying to be heard in this sudden shock of a CoVid19 era right in the middle of the juncture I'm at... although not to sound self-centered as I pray for all and take caution and isolate etc. I was laughing as I don't make the grade for what I didn't realize your advice -- YouTube being the young person's medium, being very very talented, and good looking. I'm 66 yrs old, been playing guitar since I was 12 although with big time gaps, and nothing to look at plus being 270 lbs to boot ha! Now in the "big city"... I went to a recording studio just before the virus hit. It's only $35 an hour compared to other studios, and the owner very nice. As I was describing myself he quietly added, "and leave something behind". I guess in part I'm doing that before I get a stroke or heart attack or whatever. I never played in public until now, open mics for last 2 yrs, and very surprised I've had a lot of good signs. An experienced big city, gig earning, musician told me, to take those signs (I described some to him that surprised me, standing ovation, hugs, handshakes, some in tears, and from young people too... also invited to play for 2 big family get-togethers of people I don't even know etc) as definitely good ones. In 2004 I, after some of my sibs independently of each other said I should record my acoustic solo piano music (no singing), I went from recording and selling homemade solo piano cassettes, to then buying the "M-Box" by Digidesign, two matched pairs of large condenser mics, the Studio Projects B3's that I still have, and paying a CD manufacturer. I sold close to 4,000 copies, but never toured etc. I'd had manufactured about 3,400 CD's and the other about 800 CD's all made myself. It was money all well spent on taking care of my mother. Now years later in the big "city" and this happening over the past 2yrs with open mics with my old beat up guitar and harmonica etc. I didn't at all expect. Another happening was a host of a popular open mic on the side asked questions and at one point said, "You must know you are good." Really I'm not... but I like my music and want to share it and to know I'm leaving something behind. Meanwhile the virus looms, economic crash, inflation, food shortages and the q2n-4k suddenly recently going up $20, also many probably thinking like me, no public venues for quite a while and YouTube being of that few means to be heard. I'm also seeing a lot of "sell-outs" with like q4n's "not available", q8's, the same. It seems to be happening and time is a serious factor, yet 2 weeks in and still undecided about equipment... I bought the Scarlet 2i2 3rd Gen in January and pop screens and shock mounts for my condensers and it all sits in the box unopened. After all the money spent, about $220, I got depressed thinking of having to learn ProTools all over again. In 2004 back when I had some money... I did learn it all, then hired an engineer to do mastering. He said he was blown away by my quality and charged the minimum price. But that was only two solo piano albums. Now I'll have one mic on my guitar and one for my voice. With video I might even pack it all on my bike, I don't own a car, and go to some nice places I know (a lot of lakes and river here) to record playing outdoors. I only plan to record with two mics my vocals, guitar, and a harmonica I wear on a neck brace. I live on very low budget Social Security, so money is an issue. I want a nice sounding recording and picture, and feel a video is best even though I'm nothing to look at. Maybe I'm way off... but I think by nature listeners like to "see" the music being made, watch the artist's hands, see the troubadour sing, an important connection... plus I'm thinking of patching in visuals besides just me of nice scenes etc. I feel like I need a camera too. My smart phone is very cheap, free from a Senior's charity. It has a lens, and an earphone jack... but I want better quality than that, so thinking not buying a Spire even though they seem great. Since I have the condenser mics still, and cables and stands... I could plug into like the Zoom q8, only they are $400 or more plus the cost of one of those better memory cards... having to learn some software program again... so maybe the q4n I found for $300 and plug my condenser mics into the back of that. I still think of the q2n-4k but doubt it has much quality, but again... maybe a stepping stone. I dread all the techy stuff, but I realize it's going to be a reality I must again face, so maybe no outdoor recording of patching in pretty scenes and just me in my tight apt with my mess of books and papers, and risk the thin walls in this high-rise built in 1968, and a fire and police station a block away... Wow, with all that said do you Glen, or anyone else have any ideas. I will keep going over all the fantastic responses here. I just listened to I think his name is Captain Jack, to his music and wow great talent and quality recordings! I can't be going back into my shell and need to keep at this decision and make the best decision I can. I think there are people out there who will like my songs and must have courage and confidence. I see one new q4n on Amazon for $330 and $25 shipping, on another site it for $300... I like the battery coming with it that is rechargeable... and of course other reasons. Is the usb connection breaking for some because of poor quality? It seems much more complicated to use than the q2n-4k, but you Glenn have never probably used that model, right? Getting the $50 battery pack for the q2n-4k, the wind sock, the memory card... and other things I see over $100 on top of the $220. Kindest Regards, Winfred |
#28
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As far as copywriting goes im no expert.
If you post in social media..Lets say Blake Shelton sees it and says this guy doesnt have this copywrited So he steals it records it and has a number one hit. Youll need to find a lawyer who will do it for a % of what he can get from sheltons people.Who have better lawyers than him. Weighing whether you think its all worth it or not. |
#29
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#30
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My YouTube channel can be found by left mouse clicking "My You Tube Channel" at the bottom or closing of my post here. The actual link is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8a...PgnqMAU43Mmng/ I wish you well with all your efforts. It's a shame what this pandemic has done to entertainment, however. Stay well! Regarding my approach on my YouTube channel, I show myself throughout the entire video because my experience has been that most people watch my videos because they are much more interested in learning to play the song than they are in being entertained. So the large majority of the time my hands are visible in the video showing how I am playing the song or piece. - Glenn
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My You Tube Channel Last edited by Glennwillow; 04-22-2020 at 08:21 AM. |
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covid19, newbie, spotify, youtube, zoom 2qn 4k |
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