So? What's "wrong" with just strumming and singing?

[dwasifar]

Adding my voice to the chorus of "don't listen to the haters." Not every song has to be a technical tour de force. That gets tiring to listen to really fast. Strumming and singing is the core skill of solo guitar performance, and there are plenty of songs that are designed for it.

For songs that suit your contralto, you might want to seek out the works of the late, great Maggie Roche. She had a very deep voice for a woman, and was a startlingly excellent songwriter to boot. She never released any solo work in her lifetime, but the surviving Roche sisters put together a posthumous Maggie Roche "solo" album, titled "Where Do I Come From," consisting of songs from Roches albums that Maggie wrote and mostly sang lead on. Lots of potential material for you there.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by czgunner

I remember reading an interview with Tom Petty. When asked about his critics talking about his "easy, 3 chord songs", Petty replied, " why don't they do it?" I think his list of hits emphasizes that.

Yeah. A million songs use the progression 1-6m-4-5. Petty's "Learning to Fly" just switched it up and went with 4-1-6m-5. Ha! Of course, phrasing of those chords is also key.....

[jklotz]

Maybe I should be the snob here. I play lead in a few country bands (Brent Mason/Albert Lee type stuff) and my solo acoustic work is all complicated fingerstyle, ala Tommy E. But honestly, if nobody strummed and sang, who would I back up?

When I was younger, it was all scales, modes, inversions, etc. The older I get, the more I try to play for the song. All that stuff is important, no doubt, but it's the song that grabs our emotions, draws us in. That's whats important.

Strum your guitar and sing. There is nothing wrong with that. Make the best music you can. Enjoy the process. Feel it in your heart. Feel the part of music that makes us feel alive. How you get there is irrelevant.

[Jodythebaker]

Love this post.

I strum.

I sing.

I do both very poorly.

But it makes me happy.

That’s all.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

The same thing that's wrong with drag racing an automatic, or using a capo.

I've done both, with some degree of success...

While back in the day guys like Ronnie Sox or Bill Jenkins could shoot your eyes out with a four-speed, the main reason automatics were first adopted by the Gas class racers back in the mid/late-1950's was consistency. Far from being a crutch for unskilled drivers, unless class rules mandate otherwise automatics are overwhelmingly today's gearbox of choice, particularly among bracket racers who require round-to-round repeatability; I used to run US vs. import meets with some regularity in the early 2K's - had a dead-stock '02 Z-28 that ran mid-13's on street tires and 2.73 highway gears (and served as my wife's daily driver) - and all the trailered-in 10-second AWD tuner-car WRX's and Mitsubishi Evo's were usually gone by second round, thanks to (among other things) off-the-line stumbling, missed shifts, or hitting the rev limiter under pressure...

By the same token, a properly-used capo opens up a broad variety of potential new and useful textures/timbres, and while my early jazz training allows me to play comfortably in all those nasty keys most of our fellow AGF'ers hate I keep a capo in every acoustic case for just that reason - and that reason only. Maybe it's somewhat old-school in an age where tab has increasingly replaced standard notation in the guitar world (PSA: brass/wind/orchestral-string/keyboard players don't "speak tab" - good luck when that killer tenor-sax player from down the block and her cellist boyfriend show up at the next open jam), but as a 40+ year teacher in the public and private sector I always believed in at least a minimal working knowledge of the entire fingerboard and moveable chord positions/inversions; in the grand scheme it's really no harder to play in Ab or Db than it is in G or C provided you're willing to invest the time, as the OP clearly is - but that's a story for another day...

[wguitar]

There is no "just" in strumming and singing. There are many ways play guitar, and strumming is one of them. For me, strumming is the heart of soul of many songs -- around a campfire a would you rather hear a good strummer or someone doing screaming leads all night ? Some view strumming as a secondary (and easier) guitar skill/talent -- well, it's not. Really depends on how you use and develop your strumming skills, your strumming technique/style, and where you take it musically. In summary, there's nothing "wrong" with doing what is Fun, brings you Joy, and creates enjoyable music that others can listen to, sing along with, and just enjoy.

Happy Strumming!

Cheers!

[casualmusic]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

Then I read all the derogatory comments about cowboy guitars and 3-chord strummers, posers, etc. Rather discouraging.

So, fine. Maybe it's not a high-level achievement, but it's still an achievement. My current goal is to polish my strumming/singing the best I can.

Yet, I can't seem to find videos of polished "simple" performances. Lessons, yes. Examples during a lesson, yes. But not an actual performance.

Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?

I find it all a bit amusing too. Way back when (before my time even) people would gather in the parlour and sing and play instruments. Great way to engage and entertain. Now you have kids taking piano lessons (or other lessons) for years who won't play in public because they think they're not good enough, etc. Why can't it be simple?

.

Hi

Here is a link to a poll here last year that explains the interests of people in this forum community.

do you play publicly or privately

55% play privately for their own pleasure
23% perform casually
13% perform professionally
10% other

Over 90% are interested high guitar skills.

Leaving 10% other which includes jamming and sing-alongs.

So a many here will sincerely tend to encourage developing advanced guitar skills.

Please don't be discouraged.


1. It's OK to raise minority questions and like-minded folk will respond.

It's perfectly fine to play simple arrangements to support singing.

It's well known amongst top performers that audiences are interested more in song vocals than guitar playing. The saying is "there's no money beyond the first five frets". And the fancy guitar stuff happens during breaks in the singing.

The guitar players in the audience (including enthusiasts from this forum) are the ones to pick up on the guitar playing. You'll notice that performances usually include a guitar solo to show guitar skills (and inform/please guitar enthusiasts).

If AGF is non responsive to your interest in strumming and singing...


2. Vidéos of strumming and singing.

Youtube has vids by civilians where they cover songs using a single instrument and voice. This removes the multiple distractions happening in professional performance vids. Include the word 'cover' in the search. Example 'Will the Circle be Unbroken cover"

"Seasons of the Ukulele" sub forum of the Ukuleleunderground forum has many vids, beginner to virtuoso. Watch the strumming techniques and substitute guitar for ukulele.


3. There are places where strumming and singing is encouraged and celebrated and coached.

Musicians know other musicians and you can ask amongst your fiddle friends and follow their leads. Church parishioners often know where people like to play and sing.

Most regions have an Old-Time and Bluegrass Music society where singing and playing are important. At first I was startled that amongst good voices there are song leaders with confident passible voices - I like that it's an inclusive community.

They jam frequently and at many events the participants cluster into several groups that you can play with. It's common to have a slow jam group or session comfortable for beginners.

Bluegrassers have a well established tradition on teaching jam session skills. They use simple effective techniques such as the Nashville Session Musician system and song leader protocol established in earlier decades when music lesson were less available and less affordable.

Search the Internet for guitar camps and festivals. Festivals usually have a main stage, a variety of brief workshops, and informal jamming by strangers in parking lots and camp sites. Northern Lights Bluegrass camp north of Regina and Nimble Fingers Music Camp in central BC are two of many interesting events near you.

Folk Song societies established in the 1950s and 60s continue to meet for sing-alongs. They have frequent sessions. Events include music retreats and sections of music festivals.

Cultural festivals such as Scottish, Irish, Métis, Powwow and Québécois often have sing-alongs and jamming.

As you know, other communities such as fiddle, mandolin, accordion and dance societies welcome guitarists to set rhythms.

Amongst the most enthusiastic are ukulele groups all over who meet to play and sing. Seniors are especially active. I found that ukulele singing is more accessible than guitar singing.

I started by taking a guitar to uke sessions and later switched to baritone uke (four treble strings of the guitar).

I had a pre-covid informal list of local regular events that I shared with fellow local enthusiasts included ten general events, six general ukulele events, seven weekly seniors ukulele groups, and many festivals and camps. It's likely similar in your area proportionate to the population. Uke groups world wide use websites to share simplified song sheets and booklets in many genres.

We often play in the park and sometimes attract passers-by who become members of our song circles.


Play on!
.

[pegleghowell]

Nothing wrong with strumming..can be as simple or as complex as you wish..it`s not just the"easy option".

[raysachs]

It’s how most everyone starts out. I started that way 40+ years ago and it’s still the core of what I do. If I could sing worth spit, it might well have been all I ever did. At my best, I’m a moderately poor singer. At my worst, I’m several steps below awful. I sing better when I’m playing than when I’m not, but singing is just not something I have any real feel for. So I got into playing leads on both acoustic and electric pretty quickly, and I learned a bunch of ways to play chords up the neck for funkier rhythm playing, mostly on electric.

In the past few years, I’ve taken up blues fingerpicking, and gotten to a level of very basic competence and sort of doubt I’m gonna go much further with it - it’s all about discipline and work and muscle memory and I don’t feel like I’m PLAYING music when I fingerpicks as much as I’m WORKING at music. When I strum and sing and pick out leads, I can do it pretty freely and naturally and it feels like PLAY, not work. And it felt pretty natural and fun right from the start. Which fingerpicking doesn’t even a few years into it.

These days the most enjoyable thing I do is record songs I’ve loved over the years, generally starting with a basic track of strumming and singing the song. Then I’ll generally add a lead guitar track, sometimes electric, sometimes acoustic. And then I’ll add a second vocal track or two, just because I find that doubling up the vocals makes them sound less worse - it kind of smooths out the rough spots somewhat. But I strum well enough and if I sang at all well, I might ot might not have ever gotten into adding embellishments, playing lead, etc.

I think it might have been Eic Clapton who said most really really good guitarists are just frustrated singers. I’m a mediocre guitarist, but I’m a VERY frustrated singer. If I was a good singer, I’d probably play just enough guitar to accompany my singing. That would be enough.

So if you strum and sing well enough to be satisfied with just doing that, just do that! It’s a gift, not a limitation!

-Ray

[Boozehound]

Honestly most people would rather listen to good singing and mediocre strumming than the other way around. Keep strumming and keep working on the vocals. I have been able to go from a pretty bad singer to solidly decent (realistic goals ). As you get more comfortable doing both, I think you will find that you can vary the strumming technique without losing the melody.

[rgregg48]

Strumming and singing???

That's what 85% of the people on this forum do

I'm a instrumentalist because I'm a lousy singer

What do you think fueled the

The guitar boom of the 60's ?

[rllink]

I like strumming and singing. That's my money maker. Not really, I don't make a whole lot of money off of it, but it is what I do. All the other stuff is just a hobby. I don't count on any of it to pull me through.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Nimiety

Just curious about perception.

When I started with guitar, my goal was to learn to strum, so I could accompany beginner violin students. Many adults prefer fiddle music, and it's a way to help them keep time and provide a "performance" atmosphere which is a lot of fun - and different than a violin duet.

Then I realized that I can actually sing along with the guitar! After thinking I couldn't sing (maybe because I have a deep voice, likely contralto, and couldn't manage to fit in with the other girls), turns out I can sing (even if not especially well). Regardless, I'm pumped!

Then I read all the derogatory comments about cowboy guitars and 3-chord strummers, posers, etc. Rather discouraging.

So, fine. Maybe it's not a high-level achievement, but it's still an achievement. My current goal is to polish my strumming/singing the best I can.

Yet, I can't seem to find videos of polished "simple" performances. Lessons, yes. Examples during a lesson, yes. But not an actual performance.

Why? Not interesting? Too boring? No place for it? No market?

I find it all a bit amusing too. Way back when (before my time even) people would gather in the parlour and sing and play instruments. Great way to engage and entertain. Now you have kids taking piano lessons (or other lessons) for years who won't play in public because they think they're not good enough, etc. Why can't it be simple?

hi,
I guess it is a matter of "how" you strum - it can be perfectly appropriate or rather unmusical.

Firstly - I'll address the Cowboy chords thing with this:



https://youtu.be/nLzFnvnefK0

The up/down six string strum is rarely musical and often tends to kill the vocals.

So i did this some years ago as an alternative.



https://youtu.be/oMho3zR2ecU

Hope that helps and let me know if I can assist further as I do g8ive lessons via zoom.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I bet if you took a poll here on the AGF we'd find that there are more guitar players who strum than finger pick. I like to finger pick, and I do, mostly, but I still do plenty of songs that are strummed. It's part of the standard guitar repertory in my opinion. And good guitar strummers are not beginners; there are plenty of accomplished players that are terrific strummers. A couple of great examples below...

Gordon Lightfoot playing "Canadian Railroad Trilogy:"



Pete Townshend playing "Pinball Wizard:"



I think in recent years with so many instrumental players showing guitar players that you don't have to sing to make music that a lot of players have been working on fingerstyle playing. And there are plenty of classically trained guitarists here. That, however, does not mean that anyone here on the forum should be disparaging those who enjoy singing and strumming. The "Be Nice" rule here should be keeping anyone from doing that. If they aren't, please let the AGF moderators know.

Regarding references to "cowboy chords," I really don't think you should be offended by that. It's just another name for first position chords, and that's mostly what cowboys played and sang with. They were doing the same thing around the campfire that you like to do, which sounds like a good time to me. Gene Autry and Roy Rogers made some nice music that way.

Making music should be primarily about making yourself happy. It sounds like you are already doing that, which is terrific.

- Glenn

Ya beat me to it. Gordon arguably not only made a career of strumming and singing but was one of the ones instrumental (ha punny) in bringing to popular radio and world wide acclaim

[FrankHudson]

I was at the last live concert I attended before the Covid days when I saw three fine songwriter acts all of whom played some songs that effectively used strumming.

Of course many guitar players go to concerts and compare.* But that's not always a bad thing, because I asked myself, "Why are you avoiding strumming?" After all it's just a musical technique, it makes certain sounds that can be compelling, so why not?

I made a point to start concentrating on strumming.

As to the OP worrying about what sound like derogatory statements, musicians sometimes use statements that make something sound simple or elemental to make subtler points. "It's just basically a 3 chord trick" or "the part's just this simple motif" can be read as if they're put-downs, but they can also mean "Listen at how great something that fundamental can sound!" or "You don't have to show-off to play an effective part."

Even when the slights are meant, consider that a great many guitarists who put focus on other guitar operator skills are not great rhythm players, and couldn't drive a band or song to save their life.

*There's the old lightbulb joke: "How many guitarists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" and the answer is "Four. One to screw in the bulb and three to say how they could have done it better."