Advice on Ryan, Applegate and Goodall

[emboro]

Hello all,

I’m considering a custom build with luthiers including Ryan, Applegate and Goodall. Would really appreciate any feedback from players that have tried all three. I realize that this is somewhat subjective, but still think that having more information is better, even if it’s partially biased

Some the questions I have include:

How would you characterize each in terms of sound, playability etc? What differentiates them? Do you have a preference and why? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each?

I have played a few Goodalls over the years (TROM) and was very impressed. Am also a huge fan of James Taylor and love the Olson sound...ie sort of bright and rich, with overtones, sustain etc...I play both finger style and with a pick, including folk music and some light bluegrass. I enjoy both traditional and modern sounds.

Thanks!

emboro

[justonwo]

The best advice I can possibly give you is not to listen to anyone here. If you are talking about spending Ryan-levels of money, you are taking a huge risk not playing them first. I can't tell you how many times I've formed an expectation about a builder based on what I've read here, only to come to a very different conclusion after finally playing them.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by justonwo

The best advice I can possibly give you is not to listen to anyone here. If you are talking about spending Ryan-levels of money, you are taking a huge risk not playing them first. I can't tell you how many times I've formed an expectation about a builder based on what I've read here, only to come to a very different conclusion after finally playing them.

Couldn't have said it better. Try to visit the shop if you can.

[Racerbob]

I've had two of the three and absolutely agree, one way or another you need to personally play them. These are expensive instruments and worth the expense of traveling. Certainly a dealer who has at least two examples.

[Jeff Mc]

Do you have specific requirements that preclude buying “off the rack”? Eddies Guitars had about a dozen each of Ryan’s and Goodalls listed. The Applegate is probably tougher.

[invguy921]

Originally Posted by justonwo

The best advice I can possibly give you is not to listen to anyone here. If you are talking about spending Ryan-levels of money, you are taking a huge risk not playing them first. I can't tell you how many times I've formed an expectation about a builder based on what I've read here, only to come to a very different conclusion after finally playing them.

agreed, take the time to play them all.

[SuperB23]

I've played 4 Applegates, 14 Ryans and about 60 Goodall guitars. All three brands/buiders build great instruments!! Goodall is one of my favorite brands of all time!

I'd say Ryan runs a bit heavier on the bass side than the other two. All three build very very responsive instruments. The newer Goodall guitars built in Ft Bragg CA tend to run a bit lighter weight than the older HI instruments. I've played a lot of great ones built in both HI and CA hard to go wrong. Some of the Mahogany and Maple Goodalls tend to run a bit bright and crisp to my ears. I really like the Red Spruce, German Spruce, Redwood and Cedar topped Goodall guitars the best of all I've played. I think the Standard and TRLD are their best sounding models. The CJ is also quite nice.

I really like the Mission Grand and Nightingale for Ryan.

For Applegate I've played one Jumbo, two SJs, and an FS and all were quite nice. The low E string was a bit on the weaker side on the FS model but its just a typical small size issue. The one Jumbo I played didn't strum very well it only worked for finger style playing. Applegate has a bit more of an Olson feel than the other two for sure.

I've put up quite a few videos of all of these brands I you care to watch, in the link on my signature. I try to capture the acoustic sound of the guitars.

[gitarro]

I have only played a few recent ryan nightingales in cedar and sitka with eirw and one Goodall in englemann spruxe/eirw. If
Of the two, I would say the Goodall is the one that fits your specification the closest to me. The nightingale is a very unique sounding guirar- I cannot describe it well i guess but it was the thickest sounding guitar I have ever played. There was ony one solid note where the overtones and fundamental and bass seemed to be congealed together like hot chocolate and it is the opposite of bright. For some songs it will sound incredible but for others it will not sound as good. To be safe you need to play all guitars in person to see if you will like them but this is especially the case for the nightingale IMHO.

I have also played an older ryan cathedral that was a knockout tone wise - lovely trebles with a subterraneous surround sound bass, one of the best tones I had heard up to that point when I played it like 8 years or so back. It did not incorporate the changes like the sound ports in the bevel and the laser cut holes in the bracing and the honeycomb bridge plate which I suspect may have changed the tone as well so you need to try out pre change and post change Ryan guitars to see which you will like more.

I would suggest you concentrate your attention more on Goodall of the two brands given your specs. The one I owned sounds to me like what you described you are looking for though I would caution that rich and bright to one agf member may sound like something else to a different person - these sound terms are quite subjective. Also you can save quite a lot of money by buying preowned where goodal is concerned. I owned a Hawaii made Goodall and it was a fine guitar especially for its price. Some will tell you that the newer ones made in usa by the Goodall father and son team (mostly the son) themselves is better but the Goodalls themselves will say the Hawaii ones are just as good so in the end you need to try before you buy if you can.

May I also encourage you to try out different guitsrs if you can tht are made by other luthiers beyond thaoe three brands. If you like olson tone then drew heinonen may be the closest luthier to olson tone from what I have read on these forums and been told by those in the know and I have also read that Applegate has diverged with his own tone more. I would recommend personally isaac jang guitars if you can find any for sale - my Jang OM is the only full sized guitar I own currently.

[Jeff Mc]

I have owned 3 Goodalls (a standard, GC, and a dread) and 3 Ryans ( a MGC, a Cathedral, and a Nightingale). I still own the MGC and the Nightingale.The Cathedral was Kevin’s prototype, sounded great but the body was just too large for me. The Goodalls were all before he moved to CA. and all were great. From what you describe, a Nightingale or mid size Goodall would probably fit you well. None of mine were custom builds though.

The Goodalls and Ryans are all really nice folks. Not sure what the custom experience would be. They both have a dealer network. Not sure if you would have to order through a dealer or you could go right to them.

[colins]

I’ve owned several Goodalls and played several Ryans and Applegates. They each have their own discrete sound and feel. I had a few years of good times with my Goodalls but then found that Baraniks better met my personal musical preferences. Interesting that you like James Taylor’s sound, as Applegate studied with Olson. I know other players do amazing things with Ryans (just listen to Pierre Bensusan on Altiplanos, mainly played on a Ryan that sounds incredible, at least to my ears). That said, when I have played them myself I have never bonded enough with them to want to own one. Almost bought a Ryan once, but the Maingard I was comparing it with in the shop was the winner that day.

I note you have played a Goodall TROM. Nice guitar! This was one of the few Goodalls I have owned and I found it to be quite different to my other Goodalls (GC and CJ models). And that leads to my endorsement of Juston’s comment……nothing beats trying them out. We can each tell you our preferences and use our words to describe tone but nothing beats playing them yourself. Doing a music shop road trip is hard under Covid, but something to look forward to. Shops like Dream Guitars, Luthiers Collection, Guitar Gallery and The Music Emporium can give you more knowledge about different builders in one day than years of AGF posts. And the ability to A/B several guitars in a shop is particularly useful.

[usb_chord]

Based on what you described, you might like the sound of all of these makers. That choice will ultimately have to be made based on what you have access to. I know it’s tough to hear “play them!” in the middle of a pandemic, but that really is probably some of the best advice that can be given right now. If you buy sight unseen, buy something you have the option of returning. Any reputable shop worth their salt would jump at the opportunity to accommodate you.

My favorite Ryans are the older ones, before the “innovation package”. That doesn’t mean you won’t find a new one with all the extra speed holes and flying buttresses that you love the sound of. You say you loved the Goodalls. Maybe the next one you play you’ll strongly dislike. Unlikely, but it happens!

Maybe you’ll play an Applegate and be completely thrown off by how much it doesn’t sound like what you thought an Olson sounded like. Maybe you’ll play all of those guitars and settle on something COMPLETELY different, like some Custom Shop Martin that ”spoke to you” in a way you didnt realize you wanted until you played it. Love is a wild thing!

[Racerbob]

Another consideration is if you just play instrumentals or do you also sing.

For example an Olson SJ has been James Taylor's choice because it is voiced to work well with the human voice. My Heionorn is pretty much my main guitar for just that reason, Drew's builds being very much like an Olson.

My experience is Ryans are oriented toward instrumental playing. I wouldn't say my Nightingale was that great for vocals. Not sure about Goodall, the one I had wasn't particularly a good choice for singers.

[emboro]

Hey. Thanks for the response. This is such a good point. There actually will be vocals. Interested to hear how your Heinonen and Ryan differ in that regard?

Thanks

[Racerbob]

Both have cedar top with EIR. I loved the clarity of the Ryan, especially the lower notes. And I liked how the flutes created a "surround sound" for the player. Most ideal vocal accompaniment guitars tend to reduce the emphasis of the mid range so as to not "compete" with the typical human voice.The Ryan has a more even range from lows to highs. And notes tend to be well defined so they don't blend like the Heinonen.

The Heinonen on the other hand, as true to an Olson SJ, has a bit of as they say scooped mids. But also the notes are more even from initial hit to the trailing off. This helps fill the space between each note and makes for a "fuller" sound. It has the effect of making one guitar seem almost like two. That is why Olson felt his guitar was ideal for J Taylor, who agreed.

I liked the Nightingale but Drew's current builds are as close to an Olson SJ as any of the others. Time may change that as he builds more and starts to go his own way

[colins]

Good point about matching the guitar for use with vocals. Reminds me of the Martin Shawn Colvin I bought years ago, a very nice special edition guitar in Engelmann and mahogany. I used it for fingerstyle (no vocals) and ended up selling it because it did not have as much sustain as I wanted. But that same trait (quick decay) would have made it great for a use by a singer like Shawn Colvin.

Same logic could apply to overtones. I like the tone of a Goodall for just fingerstyle but I imagine it might get a bit busy/competitive if you were trying to sing over the top of it. Makes me think that testing a guitar in a shop could include singing while playing it. Never seen anyone do that though!