Amatuer Needs Help with Mic Choice

[Zeke808]

Hi, I have (what I consider to be) some decent pro-sumer equipment:
-M-Audio Delta 44
-Mackie 402-VLZ3
-Shure SM58
-Macki Tracktion

In the past, if I was going to record both acoustic guitar and vocals I would record each track separately. I would now rather record both simultaneously (i.e. record myself playing and singing at the same time). Questions:

1) I've used the SM58 for recording guitar and am "ok" with it but since I am going to have to purchase a new mic anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for a mic for recording the acoustic guitar? Hopefully something $100 or under?

2) What can I do to keep as little bleed-over as possible from happening? It's very important that very little guitar gets into my vocal track and very little vocals into my guitar track.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Zeke

[anton]

Not sure about question number 2, but i think you can find a decent entry level condenser mic for $100. Condensers are usually better than dynamic mics, like your Shure, for recording acoustic guitar.

You could pick up an AT2020 for $100.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT2020/

There are also a number of other options in that price range.

Anton

[sdelsolray]

CAD M179. A pair would be even better.

[anton]

Good call, i like that mic, with the multiple polar patterns.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Zeke808

Hi, I have (what I consider to be) some decent pro-sumer equipment:
-M-Audio Delta 44
-Mackie 402-VLZ3
-Shure SM58
-Macki Tracktion

In the past, if I was going to record both acoustic guitar and vocals I would record each track separately. I would now rather record both simultaneously (i.e. record myself playing and singing at the same time). Questions:

1) I've used the SM58 for recording guitar and am "ok" with it but since I am going to have to purchase a new mic anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for a mic for recording the acoustic guitar? Hopefully something $100 or under?

2) What can I do to keep as little bleed-over as possible from happening? It's very important that very little guitar gets into my vocal track and very little vocals into my guitar track.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Zeke

The trick is to use a pair of figure 8 mics. The CAD M179 mentioned by sd is a fine choice. Aim the null at the source you don't want to hear, the get the sensitive part of the mic in the general right direction.

It's amazing how well this works, especially if your room has some treatment to reduce early reflections.

I did a blog post demonstrating this technique:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...figure-8-mics/

Fran

[Zeke808]

Great, thanks for the feedback guys. Glad to know I can get a decent entry level condenser mic in my price range.

Anybody know about isolating the two tracks? Is this impossible? I wonder how its done in real studios?

-Zeke

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Zeke808

Great, thanks for the feedback guys. Glad to know I can get a decent entry level condenser mic in my price range.

Anybody know about isolating the two tracks? Is this impossible? I wonder how its done in real studios?

-Zeke

Hi Zeke…
Totally isolating them takes two passes - one for the vocal and one for the guitar.

When doing both tracks at once, a pair of figure 8 large diaphragm microphones are employed and it is a delicate balance to try to record each source and to ''place'' the other source in the ''void'' of the mic. Some large diaphragm mics have multiple settings and figure 8 is a setting which records out of the front the strongest, out the back a bit less, and it rejects sound from the sides pretty heavily...

In other words the vocal mic is configured figure 8 and aimed at the singers mouth in a direction that places the guitar in the void of the vocal mic. Then the guitar mic is configured figure 8 and is aimed at the guitar with the singer in it's void.

It can be done, requires a lot of precision, and never totally isolates the two sources. If there are overdubs required, you will still have to play and sing at the same time.

I think Fran Guidry (from this group) has something about doing that on one of his demo pages.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Zeke808

Great, thanks for the feedback guys. Glad to know I can get a decent entry level condenser mic in my price range.

Anybody know about isolating the two tracks? Is this impossible? I wonder how its done in real studios?

-Zeke

Two figure 8 mics as described above. It's not possible to get perfect separation, but it's pretty easy to get 18-24 db of attenuation of the off-axis source. That's plenty to be able to edit and adjust the performances separately.

Fran

[makikogi]

any particular reason why you're not recording one thing at a time? Not trying to sound like a wise guy here, but that really is the best and most cost efficient way to rid yourself of any bleeding issues.

kinda like what one of my clients told me after i told him I have a hard time finding my golf balls on the course...."really the easiest way to find your ball is to just hit it on the fairway" I had a good laugh on that one and cried myself to sleep that night...

[Zeke808]

I like to try and capture the energy of a "real" performance. Both singing without playing and playing when there should be singing never feels natural and I think it leaves that "certain" something out... That's just me tho (in a second bedroom, very amateur guy who likes to mess around a bit with recording)

-Zeke

[dmoss74]

i get very good results with my studio projects c-3 as both a single instrument/voice mic, or to get both at the same time. a good x/y stereo setup can be found for not a lot of money either. i hear you can use the zoom h2 as a usb mic too, and i believe it can be recorded as a stereo track.