The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:29 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default Same Model - Different Weight?

I have 2 Epi 339s, one '12 w/HB and one '16 w/P90. Epi says both have the same features/design, laminated maple bodies/tops, same hardware other than pickups, necks feel the same size/shape.

But, the '12 weighs .8 pound more than the '16 (7.4 v. 6.6 on a good digital scale). I get that no two guitars will weigh the same due to variations in wood used, etc., which is why manufacturers don't typically list weight, but almost a full pound? That seems like a lot, it's a high percentage of the total weights we're talking, and I wonder if anyone has any Epi-knowledge of what could account for the sizable difference.

Also interesting is how different even 12-13 oz feels when you pick up the guitar. It's really noticeable.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:38 AM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 364
Default

Are they made in the same plant?

And I have seen variations in the range of + or - 200 gr. on electric guitars.
__________________
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'16 Yamaha FG180 50th anniversary
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo
'20 Guild F-512 MPL
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:44 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
Are they made in the same plant?

And I have seen variations in the range of + or - 200 gr. on electric guitars.
I can't find any plant markers. As for your observed range of variation, isn't 200 gr. equal to 1/2 ounce or so? That would make more sense than the 12-13 oz I'm seeing between these.

I see others have had the same question, and the differences are more pronounced with solid body guitars, so I should have mentioned that the 339s are semi-hollow, with a center block.

Last edited by ChrisN; 10-16-2018 at 11:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:51 AM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,617
Default

With any species of wood there can be significant differences in density, even in the same species, same tree, and same board.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:42 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,960
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
I can't find any plant markers. As for your observed range of variation, isn't 200 gr. equal to 1/2 ounce or so? That would make more sense than the 12-13 oz I'm seeing between these.

I see others have had the same question, and the differences are more pronounced with solid body guitars, so I should have mentioned that the 339s are semi-hollow, with a center block.
454 gr. is approximately equal to 1 pound, so 200 gr. -
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:00 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
454 gr. is approximately equal to 1 pound, so 200 gr. -
Good thing I was an English major! Thx
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:01 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Baltimore, Md.
Posts: 2,431
Default

That's only a 12% difference, could easily be due to different wood densities, even if they are the same species.
__________________
Rodger Knox, PE
1917 Martin 0-28
1956 Gibson J-50
et al
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:29 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger Knox View Post
That's only a 12% difference, could easily be due to different wood densities, even if they are the same species.
Again with the math! I'm surprised to learn there could be such a percentage difference in weight due to same-wood composition, when the design/dimensions/hardware are the same, and the overall size relatively small, but there really can be no other explanation, assuming Epi's correct about using lam maple for both guitars.

I could more easily see such a difference between Gibson's 339 and the Epi, with the Epi the heavier of the 2, due to more individual wood pieces for the top/back, consequent glue, and perhaps an added veneer to visually unify the frankenwood pieces. The Gibson version's weights I've seen are 7-7.2 pds, but it wasn't clear which of the 2 offered necks (heavier '50s or lighter 30/60) was in place.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:32 PM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is online now
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 26,989
Default

I've got two Gibson Les Pauls, a '74 that weighs 9.8 lbs and a 2018 that weighs 7.8 lbs. Now, the 2018 IS weight-relieved, with a system of eliptical cavities routed into the body.

Is there any chance that one of the two guitars is weight relieved? And yes, the difference in weight between the two guitars is profound. Both sound great. I've played the '74 since '77 and it has grown rather fullsome to carry for a two hour gig or a long session as I've, ummm... matured.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:22 PM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 364
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I've got two Gibson Les Pauls, a '74 that weighs 9.8 lbs and a 2018 that weighs 7.8 lbs. Now, the 2018 IS weight-relieved, with a system of eliptical cavities routed into the body.

Is there any chance that one of the two guitars is weight relieved? And yes, the difference in weight between the two guitars is profound. Both sound great. I've played the '74 since '77 and it has grown rather fullsome to carry for a two hour gig or a long session as I've, ummm... matured.

Bob
Very good example of how to ruin a Les Paul...ok my Classic has the swiss cheese to same abotu 250gr, but that's massive.

In terms of weight I know Gibson select the mahogany backs, the lightest non relieved go into the 1959-1960 reissue, the heavier into the Customs as the Custom has a reputation of being an heavier sounding guitar, in that case the difference might be about 500 gr.

Norlin Les Pauls were even heavier than 4.5 kg, Yamahas SG2000 from the 70s were above 4.5 and generally heavier than LPs (they had more maple), SG3000s from the early 80s might get to 4.7 kg, mine which is from 2009 is "lightweight", 4.45 kg. My 2009 SG2000 in comparison is 4.25, and I can feel the difference on the shoulder and in the sound.
__________________
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'16 Yamaha FG180 50th anniversary
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo
'20 Guild F-512 MPL
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:41 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Is there any chance that one of the two guitars is weight relieved?
Nothing I've seen in Epi lore suggests that possibility. The 339 is already a semi-hollow (2 empty chambers with a center block, and F holes), and both look the same through the holes. I suppose it'd be possible to lighten the center block some, but not the case here.

I should add that the heavier of my 339s is part of a limited "Black Royale" run that has a little metalflake in the paint, as well as a double sparkle binding on body and neck (oh yeah, it's pimped), while the lighter one's less sparkly. It's possible something about that Black Royale finish and accoutrement adds a bit to the heavier one's number.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:43 PM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 364
Default

If they were made in different plants it might be possible one had a mahogany block and the other maple.
__________________
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'16 Yamaha FG180 50th anniversary
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo
'20 Guild F-512 MPL
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:20 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
If they were made in different plants it might be possible one had a mahogany block and the other maple.
That size piece would certainly get to the difference here. Gibson specs maple for their 339 block, while Epi specs "solid center block."

Last edited by ChrisN; 10-17-2018 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:51 PM
s2y s2y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Somewhere middle America
Posts: 6,594
Default

I have owned a few guitars/basses that were the same model and same woods. Weight varied, as did the tone.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:58 PM
ghostnote ghostnote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,649
Default

It's pretty common. Not in Epi specifically, but in general. I have a Tele that's super light and comfy, and another one that I could use to drive railroad spikes. And they sound just about the same.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=