Lyric on the way....how to add my K&K to blend?

KeepInTune · #1 05-01-2013, 05:03 PM

I'm not greatly satisfied with my k&k mini in my Martin. I ordered the Lyric and intrigued about adding them together (vs taking out the k&k and using just the Lyric). I understand you can do this, however I need tome help.
1) Where do I connect the k&k leads (which lines clipped..then soldered) to the Lyric jack?
2) would I need a dual source preamp to mix the signals (Lyric + k&k)? Definitely lost on this one. If so, suggestions of preamps to blend? Is it a stereo jack that would split the k&k and Lyric?
3) Any other insight or advice?

Doubleneck · #2 05-02-2013, 07:46 AM

Look at the long Lyric Thread below started by Doug Young. Deep within that he mixes the Lyric and the K&K, and gives you some recordings. Forget if he told how he installed them. Bottom line, many thought it was not a great combination cause they are too similar? But you be the judge. Doug gives his thoughts which are probably worth a lot more than mine. Cool thing about the Lyric that is coming is you will be able to install it in about 5 minutes. I would put it in and get used to it, for a little bit, it really is very different being microphone driven, then see what you feel you need to add. If you do want to dual source you will need a preamp like a Dtar Solstice, that's what I use.

guitaniac · #3 05-02-2013, 11:14 AM

It would be a lot easier to install two jacks and use two mono cables. As Doug mentioned, running all the K&K leads to the Lyric's auxiliary input is no easy project.

Also, keep in mind that Doug was using a little remote stereo preamp which plugs right into the guitar jack. This avoids the signal crossover problem which you might get from trying to run a stereo cable to a blender or mixer.

Doug said he might try his active Lyric/passive Pure Mini setup with a stereo cable to see if there was a crossover problem. He never got back to us on that, however.

What is meant by a "crossover" problem would be that some of the active Lyric signal would end up on the Pure Mini channel (thru capacitance in the stereo cable). This would complicate blending, obviously.

unknownguitaris · #4 05-02-2013, 01:09 PM

Why not run a TRS output? Combine the ground from KK and Lyric on the sleeve. Put KK on tip and Lyric on the ring. Then make (or have made for you) a bifurcated cable that splits TRS into two "mono" cables and do all your mixing and processing independently and externally. I think this would work wonderfully, but unsure of potential ground loops. It would be simple to test though and not too costly from a cabling perspective. External mixing hardware and processing hardware costs set aside of course.

By the way, TRS is tip ring sleeve or a jack / cable that is often seen in balanced impedance cabling.

unknownguitaris · #5 05-02-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitaniac

It would be a lot easier to install two jacks and use two mono cables. As Doug mentioned, running all the K&K leads to the Lyric's auxiliary input is no easy project.

Also, keep in mind that Doug was using a little remote stereo preamp which plugs right into the guitar jack. This avoids the signal crossover problem which you might get from trying to run a stereo cable to a blender or mixer.

Doug said he might try his active Lyric/passive Pure Mini setup with a stereo cable to see if there was a crossover problem. He never got back to us on that, however.

What is meant by a "crossover" problem would be that some of the active Lyric signal would end up on the Pure Mini channel (thru capacitance in the stereo cable). This would complicate blending, obviously.

Just noticed this is pretty much saying the same thing!

DBurson · #6 05-02-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeepInTune

I'm not greatly satisfied with my k&k mini in my Martin. I ordered the Lyric and intrigued about adding them together (vs taking out the k&k and using just the Lyric). I understand you can do this, however I need some help.
1) Where do I connect the k&k leads (which lines clipped..then soldered) to the Lyric jack?
2) would I need a dual source preamp to mix the signals (Lyric + k&k)? Definitely lost on this one. If so, suggestions of preamps to blend? Is it a stereo jack that would split the k&k and Lyric?
3) Any other insight or advice?

I did this to mine two days ago. To answer your questions:

1) If you unscrew the cover off the preamp part of the lyric, there are two places to solder wires - a "plate", and a tiny hole. The plate is for the signal wire, and the tiny hole for the ground wire. As has been mentioned, it's pretty much impossible to get the K&K signal wires inside the preamp. To avoid this hassle, I combined the wires into a single smaller wire outside the preamp, and ran the smaller wire into the lyric. Works like a charm. Just be sure to shrink wrap all the loose wires so nothing shorts!

2) You will need either a dual source preamp, a box that combines the dual mono signals into one before the preamp, or two separate preamps - one for each signal. Remember that you will also need to use a TRS cable to send the signal from both pickups. As far as I know, the majority of dual source preamps will automatically separate the two signals if you use a TRS cable, but you'll want to make sure.

3) Keep in mind what has been said. For some guitars, the K&K may not add much. In mine it did, but you may not have the same luck. If you can, try mixing the signals before hand. I did by installing the Lyric and just pulling the K&K (or in my case, JJB) line outside the sound hole and plugging into it there. No need to go through all the trouble if it isn't going to add anything to your sound.

Doubleneck · #7 05-03-2013, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBurson

I did this to mine two days ago. To answer your questions:

1) If you unscrew the cover off the preamp part of the lyric, there are two places to solder wires - a "plate", and a tiny hole. The plate is for the signal wire, and the tiny hole for the ground wire. As has been mentioned, it's pretty much impossible to get the K&K signal wires inside the preamp. To avoid this hassle, I combined the wires into a single smaller wire outside the preamp, and ran the smaller wire into the lyric. Works like a charm. Just be sure to shrink wrap all the loose wires so nothing shorts!

2) You will need either a dual source preamp, a box that combines the dual mono signals into one before the preamp, or two separate preamps - one for each signal. Remember that you will also need to use a TRS cable to send the signal from both pickups. As far as I know, the majority of dual source preamps will automatically separate the two signals if you use a TRS cable, but you'll want to make sure.

3) Keep in mind what has been said. For some guitars, the K&K may not add much. In mine it did, but you may not have the same luck. If you can, try mixing the signals before hand. I did by installing the Lyric and just pulling the K&K (or in my case, JJB) line outside the sound hole and plugging into it there. No need to go through all the trouble if it isn't going to add anything to your sound.

Curious on your last comment, what did the K&K add? If the K&K was not in your guitar to begin with would you have added it to achieve what you would want?

DBurson · #8 05-03-2013, 06:16 AM

First off let me state that I left the JJB in my acoustic purely for recording purposes. For live use, the Lyric is more than sufficient for my needs. I actually hadn't intended to keep the JJB in the guitar, but before pulling it out I decided to do a side-by-side comparison. To my surprise, the mixed signal of the two actually sounded very good - the lyric provided a very natural sound for the mids and highs, while the JJB gave a nice warmth in the low end. Altogether a very good sound for painlessly recording demos.

While I likely wouldn't add a K&K/JJB to a guitar with a Lyric already installed, it seemed a waste to me to pull out a pickup that was already there that did provide benefits the Lyric could not on its own.

myersbw · #9 05-05-2013, 01:32 PM

I didn't see this point, but thought I'd add...I, too, bought the Lyric. But, after reading...I paid the piper and had an "authorized LRBaggs installer install mine. If not, your warranty is null & void. (Maybe you're a Baggs installer...or...maybe, at the price point, don't care..?) I find it funny...I could have easily installed the pickup...but, if I got a lemon, I didn't want to eat $200.

However, my installer was awesome. I not only got the pickup installed for $50 (tax incl.)...he also polished the frets, cleaned & oiled the fretboard, buffed the bridge out...pulled out a couple shims & adjusted the action...ALL for that $50. (New string change included...I provided the strings) So, I can't complain.

Now...I know my Lyric works and I have an install receipt. I could go back later and add a passive pickup or ? But, at least now I've maintained my "warranty install".

~BradM

jjang9c · #10 01-14-2019, 07:58 AM

I've set Pure Mini + Lyrics at my guitar, 2 times!
However, it retrieves me nettlesome problem, 2 times..

First time, when I tried, it gave me booming sound especially on Pure Mini, bass section.
I thought that sensor is damaged and bought new Pure Mini.

After 1 week, I knew that the problem is not from Pure mini.
Booming comes to me again and even more Pure Mini signal almost is lost.
I cannot understand what's the problem.

Does my stereo cable(15 ft) is problem?
Or any tips for avoiding the problem?

* I use Red-eye Twin preamp.