The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:02 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default Avoiding fizzling out when composing

I get a tune going well, section a is good, section b is usually smaller and ok and then section C just fizzles out and I look for a way to end prematurely and the tune doesn't really reach where I was trying to go. How do you deal with this?
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:11 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

Spend more time on developing a tune. Some come fairly quickly but most don't. Resist the urge to crank things out to the public prematurely.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2019, 04:21 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Washington State
Posts: 5,428
Default

I'm not a composer and not much of a writer at all, but there are many great tunes with just an A and B part. No C, no bridge. Its definitely not a requirement. Think about everything by John Prine, most of Dylan's songs, a lot of Paul Simon, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-04-2019, 07:57 AM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 26,993
Default

When I was studying composition, my professor said that composition was something that had to be exercised. You have to do it and do it often. Some days you get diamonds, some days you get rust. But do it. So, when I get three quarters and fizzle, I drop the current project and work on something else until a legitimate finish arrives for the first. Then I go back to the project. Otherwise your compositions are limited by the low quality of the material during your fizzles.

When I'm composing to a deadline, say for a score or something, the time between the first attempt and the brick wall and the second and completion may be short because of the deadline, but it needs to happen. You need space when you hit a wall. You also need to be able to relax and forgive yourself for not being perfect and getting it all at the same time because nothing closes the creative tap like frustration with yourself.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:19 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Good ideas everyone, thanks.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:28 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Resist the urge to crank things out to the public prematurely.
I have one I've been working on since 1972. Any day now . . . .
__________________
Some Acoustic Videos
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:48 AM
islandguitar's Avatar
islandguitar islandguitar is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 6,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Spend more time on developing a tune. Some come fairly quickly but most don't. Resist the urge to crank things out to the public prematurely.
I think this is the one so far that hits the nail on the head. With my stuff, I don't feel a need for a C section, although one might arrive unexpectedly! If I'm stuck, I'll work on the A section for potentially quite a while. Maybe a little theory to more clearly figure out what I'm into.......but mostly it's taking advantage of time, mood, moments and repetition to move things along. Mostly a LOT of repetition until this unlocks the pathway I'm looking for. No rush. Record the A section on your phone so you don't lose it. Use time away from the guitar to hum or visualize what you have already in place.

Time of day might help.....if you compose always at one time of the day (evening?)change that up and see what happens. Some of my stuff has come along directly as a result of playing in a different physical space, or even outside in good weather. A glass of wine (or 2) can also do wonders!
__________________
1993 Bourgeois JOM
1967 Martin D12-20
2007 Vines Artisan
2014 Doerr Legacy
2013 Bamburg FSC-
2002 Flammang 000 12 fret
2000 McCollum Grand Auditorium



______________________________
Soundcloud
Spotify
Mike McKee/Fred Bartlett Spotify playlist
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:06 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,312
Default

My songwriting duo partner tells about the song that took him 20 minutes to write. 10 minutes one day, and 10 minutes 10 years later.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:32 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,888
Default

As has already been mentioned, there's no international treaty that says you have to have a C section.

But if you want one, and are stumped, there are little rule/idea things you can try just to see if something works for a piece: play another section again, but reverse the cadence. Modulate to a new key, including the old favorite switching major to minor or vice versa. The same chord progression, but change one chord. Change the rhythm, not the harmony. Drop the top line melody and just play the bass/lower end notes for a section....There are more of course. There's even the Brian Eno Oblique Stategy cards which tend to be more philosophical/approach-ish.

And when you try one of these things it may sound absolutely wrong, but reacting to that can still break you out of your rut in a different direction.
__________________
-----------------------------------
Creator of The Parlando Project

Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-04-2019, 12:57 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,460
Default

This issue applies to all types of composition, whether music, fiction, poetry, etc.

Sometimes, after working hard and concentrating on a composition, you hit a wall or "fizzle out" temporarily. I just put it aside and let my subconscious play with it for a while. Then I revisit it later with an open, curious, positive attitude. Then repeat as necessary.

Like others, I have stuff that came together quickly and some (a lot) still waiting for me to complete. I try to enjoy the process and not get frustrated.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:20 PM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Great stuff, thanks again everyone!
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=