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Old 10-11-2018, 09:07 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Default Harmonic analysis question: "Lights"

Greetings,

I don't know if this if even the proper venue to field this question, but here goes:

I have been playing the song "Lights" (by Journey) for some time now. I recently, however, decided to try and apply music-theory principles towards understanding the chord structure of the tune a little better. And I'm stuck.

The tune is usually referred to as being in the key of D. As a starting point, the chords for the intro to the song are this:

/ D / Bm / D / A / Bm / C / D /

If I regard this progression as being in the key of D MAJOR, the progression takes on a I -- vi -- I -- V -- vi -- ?!?!.......harmonizing the D Major scale would yield a C#dim......not C (major triad). The C chord really needs to be there. Conclusion: I cannot just think of this as a progression in D Major.

If -- as has been suggested to me -- I regard the song as being in D Mixolydian (and derive chords accordingly), I again have a I -- vi -- I -- ?!?! then, the v chord (fourth chord in the progression) would be a minor triad....meaning Am....which sounds absolutely awful.

It is a simple intro progression, heard millions of times, using only four chords (which, for simplicity, can just be regarded as major or minor triads), and it sounds lovely and logical to my ears, and yet it seems to defy standard chord - harmony theory principles.

I'm stumped. Any help?
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:14 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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I wouldn't try to think of the whole thing as D mixolydian--

The C chord is just "borrowed." bVII to I is a very common cadence...

Songs do NOT have to be "true" to one key. Many times, it's the more interesting song that aren't!

Always remember, theory explains, not dictates.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:35 AM
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Erithon Erithon is offline
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mr. beaumont is correct: the bVII is a borrowed chord, an example of modal mixture. In this case, that mixture is indeed from the Mixolydian mode as you mentioned above. The bVII-I is a common cadence in pop music. You'll also often see bVII-IV-I.

As you analyze songs, keep in mind that the key of a song does not limit what note and chords can appear; rather, it helps you understand how those notes and chords are functioning, e.g. I is "home" (the tonic).

Regarding the v (Am) versus V (A) in D Mixolydian, songs in the minor key (Aeolian) or other modes often (usually?) opt for a major V because the third of that chord (which makes it major) is a raised 7th degree of the scale (the leading tone) which creates a stronger pull toward the I chord. In short, it strengthens the cadential motion. To understand this, look into the harmonic and melodic minor scales versus the natural minor scale.

Last edited by Erithon; 10-11-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:29 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Jeff and Erithon,

Thank you both very much. I read through both of your responses several times each, learning what I can. I also did a little internet searching on "borrowed chords" (modal mixtures) and "parallel keys" to help me follow along better. I really appreciate you folks sharing your knowledge and insights.

For the present, I am inclined to look at the intro to the song thusly:

I vi I V vi bVII I

/ D / Bm / D / A / Bm / C / D /


In that sense, I guess I am looking at the progression as being in D Major, with the bVII [C chord] being "borrowed" from D Mixolydian. I might go so far as to suggest that the bVII is serving the function of the V chord (leading back to the I)?

Last edited by Paultergeist; 10-11-2018 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:21 PM
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Erithon Erithon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
I might go so far as to suggest that the bVII is serving the function of the V chord (leading back to the I)?
It is serving the same function as the V, but only in the most general sense: to provide some sort of cadence. Technically, the V serves a dominant function and, unlike the vii° (which also acts as dominant), the bVII serves a subdominant function (same as the ii or IV) here. When it leads to the I chord this sort of motion is called a plagal cadence because it is less emphatic than the authentic cadence of V-I. Instead it creates a rolling, progressive feel and that's precisely why rock and pop music feature the IV-I progression: it gives you repeated resolution of tension but lacks the finality of V-I. The bVII is subdominant because it is taken from the Mixolydian mode--in this case D--which is constructed from notes in the key of G. And C is the IV of G.

That's the best way to think of this. But we might also analyze that bVII as the IV/IV, meaning it is the IV chord from the key of IV in our current scale. This is basically the same as my analysis above, but it highlights a secondary subdominant function (Google "secondary dominance" for more on this). Since there really isn't a tonicization of or modulation to G in the progression you've given us, though, I think the subdominant/pagal cadence argument is more compelling.

Finally, you might also imagine the C as being borrowed from the parallel minor (D minor) where it has the subtonic function, but I don't think that is the best analysis in this case because of the bass line's ascending motion. That bVII completes the walk up of A-B-C-D, but a subtonic suggests downward motion (say, to the VI in minor or to the bVI in modal mixture as we have here). The leading tone chord (vii°), on the other hand, suggests upward motion to the tonic which is why it has a dominant function.

Last edited by Erithon; 10-11-2018 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:02 PM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Thank you again.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:03 AM
Suzidownunder Suzidownunder is offline
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I've played my whole life (professionally and whatever) but you guys left me behind [emoji122]
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:04 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzidownunder View Post
I've played my whole life (professionally and whatever) but you guys left me behind [emoji122]
Hey, this is serious high level amateur nerd stuff, you pros are way out of your depth.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzidownunder View Post
I've played my whole life (professionally and whatever) but you guys left me behind [emoji122]
There was a period of my life when I (mis)prioritized studying over rehearsing--this is the result haha
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:11 AM
Suzidownunder Suzidownunder is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Hey, this is serious high level amateur nerd stuff, you pros are way out of your depth.
[emoji23][emoji23] I seriously need to study
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:12 AM
Suzidownunder Suzidownunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erithon View Post
There was a period of my life when I (mis)prioritized studying over rehearsing--this is the result haha
Haha its a skill set I envy
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:25 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
I wouldn't try to think of the whole thing as D mixolydian--

The C chord is just "borrowed." bVII to I is a very common cadence...

Songs do NOT have to be "true" to one key. Many times, it's the more interesting song that aren't!

Always remember, theory explains, not dictates.
Perfect!!!

A friend of mine was at Berklee School of Music (in Boston), in one of their upper echelon classes. The instructor was digging DEEP into "Functional Re-Harmonization"... and then paused and said...

"Remember, all this stuff was made up by a bunch of intellectuals in New York City, to explain "Why the Blues Works".....!!!!!!

The C chord is just a VII chord, as Bruce said... very common, even in 100+ year-old folk music... good question to ask! A lot of folks start getting their "feet wet" with a little harmony and theory, and they let it totally get in the way of the music! Understandable (I did it), but, still...
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