The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 10-08-2018, 01:33 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

More confusion (from Epiphone):
Alnico Classic PRO™
If you’re looking for the traditional tonal charteristics of Alnico pickups but with a higher output and a slightly more modern sound, check out our critically acclaimed Alnico Classic PRO™ humbuckers. Alnico Classic PROs are found in nouvo classics like the Epiphone ES-339 PRO, the G-400 PRO, and the Les Paul Traditional PRO™. Alnico Classic PROs are similar to ProBuckers in construction except they use Alnico-V magnets, making them higher in output for enhanced mids and highs.
There are currently in my Epi 339. So, Epiphone says V magnets give you "higher output" and, thus, "enhanced" highs, while Upfront guy says higher output gives you reduced highs.

Supposedly the ACP and Probucker are wound the same and have the same resistance, the only difference between them being the magnets (II for PB and V for ACP).
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-08-2018, 01:57 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 441
Default

There was a time when Epiphone pickups were criticized for being dark and muddy, but nowadays their newer offerings leave nothing to be desired. I think a good starting point for pickup performance is *piercingly bright and clear*, which allows for maximum headroom to start, then the signal can be toned down and treated according to personal preference. From what I’ve read from your posts I think you should acquire a pro level tube amp with severe headroom to allow the clarity of your lower output humbuckers to be appreciated.

Last edited by Jaden; 10-09-2018 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:45 PM
ghostnote ghostnote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 370
Default

You like what you like. Personally, I have HB guitars that I love the sound of, and P90 guitars that I love the sound of. And of course Fender single coils, too. So I guess I think that there are good tones to be had everywhere you look, and finding 'em is it's own reward.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:21 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
More confusion (from Epiphone):
Alnico Classic PRO™
If you’re looking for the traditional tonal charteristics of Alnico pickups but with a higher output and a slightly more modern sound, check out our critically acclaimed Alnico Classic PRO™ humbuckers. Alnico Classic PROs are found in nouvo classics like the Epiphone ES-339 PRO, the G-400 PRO, and the Les Paul Traditional PRO™. Alnico Classic PROs are similar to ProBuckers in construction except they use Alnico-V magnets, making them higher in output for enhanced mids and highs.
There are currently in my Epi 339. So, Epiphone says V magnets give you "higher output" and, thus, "enhanced" highs, while Upfront guy says higher output gives you reduced highs.

Supposedly the ACP and Probucker are wound the same and have the same resistance, the only difference between them being the magnets (II for PB and V for ACP).
Yes, I think the above discussion by Epiphone is in error, especially if as you stated earlier the Classic Pros are Epiphone’s equivalent to Gibson’s ‘57 Classics (again with magnet switch to avoid too close a copy). It could be just a matter of advertising gobily gook.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:38 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
From what I’ve read from your posts I think you should acquire a pro level tube amp with severe headroom to allow the clarity of your lower output humbuckers to be appreciated.
That's the conclusion I'm coming to, as well.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:45 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Yes, I think the above discussion by Epiphone is in error, especially if as you stated earlier the Classic Pros are Epiphone’s equivalent to Gibson’s ‘57 Classics (again with magnet switch to avoid too close a copy). It could be just a matter of advertising gobily gook.
There's a lot of conflicting info from too many sources, including from Epi's own marketing department - don't get me started on "Dr. Epiphone's" videos.

Every board has "that" guy (usually) who seems to be the guru, and LtKojak is that guy on the Seymour Duncan board. He dissects pickups and mixes/matches components, switches magnets, even rewinds them to achieve different results, all for fun and he seems quite knowledgeable. He knows Epiphones, owns a 339 Pro w/ACPs that he's torn down and changed, and he swears the magnets in those pickups are IIs, not Vs. I give up on knowing that particular truth. Still enjoying the ride. Thanks for the input.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:55 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostnote View Post
You like what you like. Personally, I have HB guitars that I love the sound of, and P90 guitars that I love the sound of. And of course Fender single coils, too. So I guess I think that there are good tones to be had everywhere you look, and finding 'em is it's own reward.
True. My issue was that I didn't seem to have any HBs I loved the sound of, so, though we've gotten a bit afield, my original question was whether my problem was due to the lowish quality of my particular in-house HBs (potentially cured by $$ spent on bigger names), or if anyone held the opinion that the HB's relative lack of clarity was endemic to HBs generally, regardless of $$ spent. Maybe I just wasn't a HB guy as an aspiring player, despite growing up digging that usually distorted sound as a listener.

One or more responders pointed me to a couple of names I can explore, while other sources suggested lower pickup output was key, then letting the amp do the work of accentuating the positive. I've learned a lot, and in the process have done more work to get a better sound from my current setup, which has improved quite a bit just by tweaking the vol/tone controls (and that Blackstar American/British knob) on the amp and guitar. Much better, and the other suggestions are on my "someday to try" list.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:19 AM
clintj clintj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posts: 4,176
Default

I get the love for P90s as well. They're some of the greatest out there for overdrive with a good tube amp, and will be an addition to my guitar collection at some point.

If you don't find the articulation you want with 57 Classics, there's a couple other humbuckers I know of that might get you there. The DiMarzio PAF Pro and the SD Seth Lover. A good PAF style pickup properly set up is very clear and articulate, almost like a really fat Telecaster sound. If those can't get you there, you may well just flat out prefer the P90 just like quite a few other players out there.
__________________
"You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great." -Zig Ziglar

Acoustics
2013 Guild F30 Standard
2012 Yamaha LL16
2007 Seagull S12
1991 Yairi DY 50

Electrics
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Fender Am. Standard Telecaster
Gibson ES-335
Gibson Firebird
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:45 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: McLeansville, NC
Posts: 6,073
Default

I really like p-90's, but prefer them for slide above all else. The combination of grind and high output give them a gnarly bite.

I love the neck humbucker on my bluesboy. Fat but with good clarity. Like you, I find many humbuckers to sound muddy. You may want to try something with a Humbucker/P90 combo like a fallout. It gives you the P90 and the halfway between option. Then again, hb's may not be your thing.
__________________
Roy


Ibanez AC240, Alvarez MFA70, RK ROS-10, Gretsch Boxcar,
G&L Tribute Bluesboy, Squier VM '72 Thinline Telecaster, G&L Tribute Ascari GT90,
Vox MV50 Rock, Vox MV50 AC, Vox 12 & 8 inch cabs
Roland Cube street EX, Fender Passport Mini, Samson 308i PA

Our website with audio clips - updated 6/7/18

My Solo site - Roy Alderman Music -Updated 6/10/18
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:06 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roylor4 View Post
I really like p-90's, but prefer them for slide above all else. The combination of grind and high output give them a gnarly bite.

I love the neck humbucker on my bluesboy. Fat but with good clarity. Like you, I find many humbuckers to sound muddy. You may want to try something with a Humbucker/P90 combo like a fallout. It gives you the P90 and the halfway between option. Then again, hb's may not be your thing.
I looked hard at the Fallout before getting my Ascari GT90 (that I like quite a bit), but that narrower 1 5/8" nut scares me a bit, and they offer that model with no other. I'm also keeping an eye open for a yamaha Pac611 that's got p90 neck and hb bridge (both SD).
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:16 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintj View Post
I get the love for P90s as well. They're some of the greatest out there for overdrive with a good tube amp, and will be an addition to my guitar collection at some point.

If you don't find the articulation you want with 57 Classics, there's a couple other humbuckers I know of that might get you there. The DiMarzio PAF Pro and the SD Seth Lover. A good PAF style pickup properly set up is very clear and articulate, almost like a really fat Telecaster sound. If those can't get you there, you may well just flat out prefer the P90 just like quite a few other players out there.
I've heard the Seth Lover on SD's site and it is better than what I had, HB-wise, but less bitey than I was looking for. To me, that PAF Pro has a better attack, possibly due to the V magnet. Hard to find a nice clean example, but I'll keep looking for one. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:27 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clintj View Post
I get the love for P90s as well. They're some of the greatest out there for overdrive with a good tube amp, and will be an addition to my guitar collection at some point.

If you don't find the articulation you want with 57 Classics, there's a couple other humbuckers I know of that might get you there. The DiMarzio PAF Pro and the SD Seth Lover. A good PAF style pickup properly set up is very clear and articulate, almost like a really fat Telecaster sound. If those can't get you there, you may well just flat out prefer the P90 just like quite a few other players out there.
Agree with your description of a well set up PAF; anyone who hasn’t experienced this is missing out on something special. Quality amplification is the key.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:32 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: McLeansville, NC
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
I looked hard at the Fallout before getting my Ascari GT90 (that I like quite a bit), but that narrower 1 5/8" nut scares me a bit, and they offer that model with no other. I'm also keeping an eye open for a yamaha Pac611 that's got p90 neck and hb bridge (both SD).
Well, keep in mind that 1 & 5/8ths = 1.625 will the Yamaha mentioned has a 1.614", so essentially the same. Looks like a great guitar though.

I understand the aversion to narrower necks. On acoustic I prefer a generous 1.75". I have transitioned pretty well to neck width of the BB and prefer the narrower but deeper neck profile than the one on my Ascari P90. I also have a strong personal preference towards satin Maple necks over gloss on anything.

I have a feeling that it wouldn't take you long to go to a 1&5/8 but we are all different.

Have you tried the Gibson SG? It's configuration offers the fatness of HB's put still maintains (IMHO) more treble and overall definition than the LP or ES335.
__________________
Roy


Ibanez AC240, Alvarez MFA70, RK ROS-10, Gretsch Boxcar,
G&L Tribute Bluesboy, Squier VM '72 Thinline Telecaster, G&L Tribute Ascari GT90,
Vox MV50 Rock, Vox MV50 AC, Vox 12 & 8 inch cabs
Roland Cube street EX, Fender Passport Mini, Samson 308i PA

Our website with audio clips - updated 6/7/18

My Solo site - Roy Alderman Music -Updated 6/10/18
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:30 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roylor4 View Post
Well, keep in mind that 1 & 5/8ths = 1.625 will the Yamaha mentioned has a 1.614", so essentially the same. Looks like a great guitar though.

I understand the aversion to narrower necks. On acoustic I prefer a generous 1.75". I have transitioned pretty well to neck width of the BB and prefer the narrower but deeper neck profile than the one on my Ascari P90. I also have a strong personal preference towards satin Maple necks over gloss on anything.

I have a feeling that it wouldn't take you long to go to a 1&5/8 but we are all different.

Have you tried the Gibson SG? It's configuration offers the fatness of HB's put still maintains (IMHO) more treble and overall definition than the LP or ES335.
Buzz-kill on the Yamaha's nut width (and didn't know the BB's was 1 5/8)! I'm sure you're right that I could adapt from my 1 11/16 (elec) comfort zone. Agreed re: satin necks.

I've not considered or tried an SG. I know it's the choice of some excellent guitarists (eg Derek Trucks), probably for smart reasons, but the whole devil horns aesthetic (thanks, Angus) isn't working for me. Could be worth it for the lightness and sound. I can't see it while I'm playing it, right?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:01 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 32,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
Buzz-kill on the Yamaha's nut width (and didn't know the BB's was 1 5/8)! I'm sure you're right that I could adapt from my 1 11/16 (elec) comfort zone. Agreed re: satin necks.

I've not considered or tried an SG. I know it's the choice of some excellent guitarists (eg Derek Trucks), probably for smart reasons, but the whole devil horns aesthetic (thanks, Angus) isn't working for me. Could be worth it for the lightness and sound. I can't see it while I'm playing it, right?
SGs are great guitars and weigh considerable less then a Les Paul, less expensive too. Try one next time you're at the shop for both the tone and the feel. You can also get SGs with P90s. I have a '50s SG Tribute that has P90s and it was one of the less expensive SGs out there (satin top).
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=