The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:57 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default Greenback vs Creamback

Iíve been looking through the Celestion website for speakers, specifically the G12M Greenback rated at 25 watts vs the Creamback G12M-65 rated at 65 watts. What are some of the differences in performance between these two?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2018, 11:22 AM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 363
Default

The greenback is an older design, I think it was the first ceramic Celestion, I have them in my Vox AC30. I also have them in my Marshal 4x4 limited edition.

Like the Bulldogs they were meant to handle 25W max.

The M65 sound more modern in my experience, I had them in my old JCM900 combo, long time ago in a galaxy far away.
__________________
'74 B.C.Rich B-38 Brazilian RW
'74 Ovation Folklore 1114
'81 Guild D-25SB
'00 Guild JF-30-12
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:02 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
The greenback is an older design, I think it was the first ceramic Celestion, I have them in my Vox AC30. I also have them in my Marshal 4x4 limited edition.

Like the Bulldogs they were meant to handle 25W max.

The M65 sound more modern in my experience, I had them in my old JCM900 combo, long time ago in a galaxy far away.
Thanks cuthbert, I’ve been meaning to ask about the differences between your Southern Jumbo and Sheryl Crow Gibsons, but that’s another subject for another board. I admire your list of instruments.

Speakers are a delightful topic for discussion for combo amp choices. I appreciate any input on any models for home use.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:17 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 7,754
Default

the lower wattage greenback will break up sooner than the larger wattage speaker. it is a personal choice.

a lot of people feel that the amp is 40% of the total sound with the speaker being about the same percentage of the amp's sound.

play music!
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics

See my Virtual Music Instrument Museum below.

http://muscmp.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:51 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muscmp View Post
the lower wattage greenback will break up sooner than the larger wattage speaker. it is a personal choice.

a lot of people feel that the amp is 40% of the total sound with the speaker being about the same percentage of the amp's sound.

play music!
Agree about the 40% or so, if not more. There is a certain frequency response in the upper midrange the human ear is particularly sensitive to, but I don’t have any specific information to offer on that at the moment. I’ve had some experience with ‘soft’ on the ear, dark voiced amps with all the rage for overdrive these days but easily prefer/ insist on the mid sixties hard articulation chime. Any speaker/combo that makes me sound better than I really am is not of interest at this point. More interested in becoming a better musician via a more discriminating amp & speaker.

Last edited by Jaden; 10-11-2018 at 12:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2018, 05:23 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out West
Posts: 10,194
Default

Having only gotten back into electric 2 years ago come Nov. After 46 yrs. I am by no means and expert so take with grain of salt
But Interestingly while speaking with Daniel Klein builder of Port City Amps and Speaker Cabinets
While discussing speakers for his highly acclaimed cabinet, he was enthusiastic in recommending Warehouse Guitar Speakers over the Celestions I was asking about, specifically the WGS Veteran 30 as opposed to the Celestion Vintage 30, for clean sound . Given he offers both I was intrigued .
WGS are made in USA sold factory direct
Apparently WGS makes models much like some of the more popular Celestions and markets them under their "British Invasion" line . Might be worth checking out ???

https://wgsusa.com/british-invasion-grid
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud

FOR SALE: Supro Titan Tube Amp
FOR SALE: Brauner Phantom V Mic
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2018, 05:37 PM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Thanks cuthbert, I’ve been meaning to ask about the differences between your Southern Jumbo and Sheryl Crow Gibsons, but that’s another subject for another board. I admire your list of instruments.

Speakers are a delightful topic for discussion for combo amp choices. I appreciate any input on any models for home use.
We can do a quick OT, this is my 2018 Southern Jumbo:



As you can see it's based on a 1954-1960 SJ, round shoulders, with few modern tweaks (Tusq saddle and nut, Grover rotomatics...that I plan to replace).

I don't have a recent pic of my SC but it's the old model based on her 1964 Country and Western, this is a pic of her guitar:



Unlike the original the reissue has a relatively thick neck (thicker than the SJ) and a 44mm nut instead of a 42 mm (as you can see the neck is slim and even if she's a minute woman she can easily cover with her index all the nut width), that is the only thing I don't like of the guitar, it's phenomenal, the mahogany sides and backs are slightly figured and the guitar is very light.

The SJ has a deep bass like a Martin, the SC is ideal for strumming with sweet mid and high end.

Coming back IT are you talking about the 75 creamback?

https://celestion.com/product/141/g12h75_creamback/

Or the 65?

https://celestion.com/product/26/heritage_series_g1265/

Those are not described as creamback but were OEM for Marshall JCM800 and 900 combo as far as I remember.

Regarding the greenbacks, their effect and comparison with the Bulldogs (Alnico blue) on the AC30 are quite interesting: the Vox become more aggressive, especially at full saturation. Brian May used AC30 with greenbacks for certain Queen songs in the early 80s when he wanted a more "modern" cutting sound, "Flash", "the Hero" and "Hammer to fall" I think were recorded with greenbacked AC30s, while Marshall become a little more "voxed" with greenbacks: I use my Slash AFD100 head with the greenbacks and I think the amp sounds fuller than Slash's sound, at least on youtube.

This cabinet is the 425 purple limited edition originally made for the Hendrix stack, it has G12Cs that were special greenbacks, but a greenback is always a greenback, here there is a comparison for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRizpPXyDk
__________________
'74 B.C.Rich B-38 Brazilian RW
'74 Ovation Folklore 1114
'81 Guild D-25SB
'00 Guild JF-30-12
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo

Last edited by cuthbert; 10-11-2018 at 05:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:03 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Having only gotten back into electric 2 years ago come Nov. After 46 yrs. I am by no means and expert so take with grain of salt
But Interestingly while speaking with Daniel Klein builder of Port City Amps and Speaker Cabinets
While discussing speakers for his highly acclaimed cabinet, he was enthusiastic in recommending Warehouse Guitar Speakers over the Celestions I was asking about, specifically the WGS Veteran 30 as opposed to the Celestion Vintage 30, for clean sound . Given he offers both I was intrigued .
WGS are made in USA sold factory direct
Apparently WGS makes models much like some of the more popular Celestions and markets them under their "British Invasion" line . Might be worth checking out ???

https://wgsusa.com/british-invasion-grid
Thanks for the link, right on target for vintage clean.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:10 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
We can do a quick OT, this is my 2018 Southern Jumbo:



As you can see it's based on a 1954-1960 SJ, round shoulders, with few modern tweaks (Tusq saddle and nut, Grover rotomatics...that I plan to replace).

I don't have a recent pic of my SC but it's the old model based on her 1964 Country and Western, this is a pic of her guitar:



Unlike the original the reissue has a relatively thick neck (thicker than the SJ) and a 44mm nut instead of a 42 mm (as you can see the neck is slim and even if she's a minute woman she can easily cover with her index all the nut width), that is the only thing I don't like of the guitar, it's phenomenal, the mahogany sides and backs are slightly figured and the guitar is very light.

The SJ has a deep bass like a Martin, the SC is ideal for strumming with sweet mid and high end.

Coming back IT are you talking about the 75 creamback?

https://celestion.com/product/141/g12h75_creamback/

Or the 65?

https://celestion.com/product/26/heritage_series_g1265/

Those are not described as creamback but were OEM for Marshall JCM800 and 900 combo as far as I remember.

Regarding the greenbacks, their effect and comparison with the Bulldogs (Alnico blue) on the AC30 are quite interesting: the Vox become more aggressive, especially at full saturation. Brian May used AC30 with greenbacks for certain Queen songs in the early 80s when he wanted a more "modern" cutting sound, "Flash", "the Hero" and "Hammer to fall" I think were recorded with greenbacked AC30s, while Marshall become a little more "voxed" with greenbacks: I use my Slash AFD100 head with the greenbacks and I think the amp sounds fuller than Slash's sound, at least on youtube.

This cabinet is the 425 purple limited edition originally made for the Hendrix stack, it has G12Cs that were special greenbacks, but a greenback is always a greenback, here there is a comparison for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRizpPXyDk
Beautiful guitars, lots of background info I didnít know about like the celestion blue speaker. I know there are veterans of the electric guitar on this board, but I hope younger folks can pick up some tips here too.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:06 AM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Beautiful guitars, lots of background info I didnít know about like the celestion blue speaker. I know there are veterans of the electric guitar on this board, but I hope younger folks can pick up some tips here too.
Alas most of the young people around have grown up without guitar heroes (my generation was the last one, and I am 40) therefore they are interested in these details: nobody is interested to know which strings a current generic guitarist uses, or the loudspeakers, or his amp settings.
__________________
'74 B.C.Rich B-38 Brazilian RW
'74 Ovation Folklore 1114
'81 Guild D-25SB
'00 Guild JF-30-12
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings)
'06 Ovation Balladeer K1111
'10 Gibson Sheryl Crow
'11 Martin HD-28V
'18 Gibson Southern Jumbo
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:57 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Having only gotten back into electric 2 years ago come Nov. After 46 yrs. I am by no means and expert so take with grain of salt
But Interestingly while speaking with Daniel Klein builder of Port City Amps and Speaker Cabinets
While discussing speakers for his highly acclaimed cabinet, he was enthusiastic in recommending Warehouse Guitar Speakers over the Celestions I was asking about, specifically the WGS Veteran 30 as opposed to the Celestion Vintage 30, for clean sound . Given he offers both I was intrigued .
WGS are made in USA sold factory direct
Apparently WGS makes models much like some of the more popular Celestions and markets them under their "British Invasion" line . Might be worth checking out ???

https://wgsusa.com/british-invasion-grid
Interesting also - the Warehouse Retro 30 receives some glowing reviews on the website. The concept of British Invasion is intriguing; it brings to mind the clear, chime-y Vox amplification that transmited so well over AM radio during that era.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=