Fishman Loudbox Mini charge

Big Band Guitar · #1 06-09-2018, 02:11 PM

My Loudbox Mini quit last Thursday.

Shipped it off to Fishman for repair Friday.

It may be gone for a while so I thinking about buying a Loudbox Mini charge, that way I would have a spare on hand in case of another failure.

So is the charge the same as the plugin only battery powered? I'm not looking for recommendations for another brands just if there are any real differences between the two.

jonfields45 · #2 06-09-2018, 08:18 PM

Entirely different electrical design. The internals of the Charge are class D switching. The original Mini is an analog AB design. But, I imagine Fishman designed them to sound the same. I have a Charge and am quite happy with it.

Big Band Guitar · #3 06-12-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Entirely different electrical design. The internals of the Charge are class D switching. The original Mini is an analog AB design. But, I imagine Fishman designed them to sound the same. I have a Charge and am quite happy with it.

Would the class D switching be the output or the power supply? I could see the power supply being changed to a switching power supply to save weight to compensate for the heavy battery. I had assumed the output stage was already Class D.

I did go and buy the LoudBox Mini Charge and signed up for the free gig bag. Haven't used it on a gig yet.

jonfields45 · #4 06-13-2018, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

Would the class D switching be the output or the power supply? I could see the power supply being changed to a switching power supply to save weight to compensate for the heavy battery. I had assumed the output stage was already Class D.

I did go and buy the LoudBox Mini Charge and signed up for the free gig bag. Haven't used it on a gig yet.

If you look into the cooling slots in the top of a Mini you can see the power amp's heat sink. Look inside the Mini Charge and there is no heat sink. The output stage was changed from AB to D. My perspective as an electrical engineer: designed with a minimum of care you won't hear the difference until you force the power amp to distort (think Jimi Hendrix).

lkingston · #5 06-13-2018, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

...My perspective as an electrical engineer: designed with a minimum of care you won't hear the difference until you force the power amp to distort (think Jimi Hendrix).

Not being an engineer, I don’t understand this. What is the difference between AB and D class amps when they distort?

dcopper · #6 06-13-2018, 07:49 AM

FWIW- I have played both and think they sound substantially the same. Classic Fishman acoustic tone. I have a LB Performer and Artist. I am buying a Charge for the portability factor after doing an A/B/C with the BOSE/Mackie FreePlay Live and LB Mini Charge.
Davidc

Big Band Guitar · #7 06-13-2018, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

If you look into the cooling slots in the top of a Mini you can see the power amp's heat sink. Look inside the Mini Charge and there is no heat sink. The output stage was changed from AB to D. My perspective as an electrical engineer: designed with a minimum of care you won't hear the difference until you force the power amp to distort (think Jimi Hendrix).

I was a electronics tech servicing industrial electronics for 39 years. This makes sense. I would like to see the real schematics of both not just the block diagrams. I guess with all the tube worshipers out there Fishman does not want everyone know they are digital.

I don't ever want to sound like Hendrix so it's all good here.

For those who don't know class D (today means digital the old days something else) is either on or off. I great power saver. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Big Band Guitar · #8 06-13-2018, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

FWIW- I have played both and think they sound substantially the same. Classic Fishman acoustic tone. I have a LB Performer and Artist. I am buying a Charge for the portability factor after doing an A/B/C with the BOSE/Mackie FreePlay Live and LB Mini Charge.
Davidc

With the current promotion you have till Aug. 31 to get the free gig bag.

https://www.fishman.com/minibag2018/

Groberts · #9 06-13-2018, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

FWIW- I have played both and think they sound substantially the same. Classic Fishman acoustic tone. I have a LB Performer and Artist. I am buying a Charge for the portability factor after doing an A/B/C with the BOSE/Mackie FreePlay Live and LB Mini Charge.
Davidc

What did the Bose S1 Pro sound like to you compared to the Fishman LB Mini Charge? (Just curious since I bought the LB Mine Charge and thought it sounded more natural than the Bose) But several players I know have been singing the praises of the Bose S1 Pro. Maybe I didn't give it a fair shake.

I still love the LB Mini Charge and that padded Fishman Gig bag that came with it (Promo / no cost) is SUPER Nice and convenient. I think its essential for gigging. So that was a nice value add!

martingitdave · #10 06-13-2018, 02:24 PM

I think the LBM has a warmer sound based on the speaker design (1 6.5" woofer and a 1" tweeter.) The S1 has more mid and high frequency information because of the (1) 6" woofer and (3) 2" drivers. Like the L1 Compact, The S1 projects better as a result. I like the vocals through the Bose better. The guitar probably sounds better through the LBM straight in, and at med volume. I'm not a huge fan of the guitar ToneMatch setting, incidentally. I use the guitar flat and the vocals with the ToneMatch setting. It's a nifty little 15lb speaker.

jonfields45 · #11 06-13-2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

Not being an engineer, I don’t understand this. What is the difference between AB and D class amps when they distort?

The answer is I don't know, but I would expect them to sound different in the hands of a heavy metal guitarist given the two circuits are so different.

dcopper · #12 06-14-2018, 07:25 PM

Sorry just getting back...
The BOSE sounded thin and sterile to me. when compared to the Mini Charge. I was using a Taylor 414ce rosewood with the new Taylor ES2 system. I say this and I am a BOSE fan that really wanted to like the BOSE S1.
I would have had to use another mixer/preamp to get a nice thick tone. With the Mini Charge, it was plug and play. I have had the same luck with my LB Performer and LB Artist. I use K&K + Sunrise in a 914 and K&K and/or M80 in an 814 cocobolo LTD.
Now that is just me- others are really liking the BOSE S1. I went back twice thinking maybe I didn't give it a fair shake. Your mileage may vary.
davidc

BoneDigger · #13 06-14-2018, 07:58 PM

I just traded in my LB Mini for a Mini Charge today. I wanted to do so while I could still get the free carry bag. I haven't seen a ton of difference in terms of tone from the standard Mini, which is a good thing.

My plan is to use the Mini Charge with my Rainsong which has a K&K mini in it. I'll use the K&k preamp and a vocal pedal. All now run on batteries so I should be completely free to setup anywhere I want.

I'll be playing at a small outdoors farmer's market where the crowds are very small. I can't imagine I'll need anything else.

89bruin · #14 06-14-2018, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

Sorry just getting back...
The BOSE sounded thin and sterile to me. when compared to the Mini Charge. I was using a Taylor 414ce rosewood with the new Taylor ES2 system. I say this and I am a BOSE fan that really wanted to like the BOSE S1.
I would have had to use another mixer/preamp to get a nice thick tone. With the Mini Charge, it was plug and play. I have had the same luck with my LB Performer and LB Artist. I use K&K + Sunrise in a 914 and K&K and/or M80 in an 814 cocobolo LTD.
Now that is just me- others are really liking the BOSE S1. I went back twice thinking maybe I didn't give it a fair shake. Your mileage may vary.
davidc

That was my experience as well. I really wanted to love the S1 but after struggling with it for a week or so I returned it for the Mini Charge and haven’t regretted it for a second. Really, the S1 sounded somewhere between mediocre and terrible where the Mini Charge just sings.

Groberts · #15 06-14-2018, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcopper

Sorry just getting back...
The BOSE sounded thin and sterile to me. when compared to the Mini Charge. I was using a Taylor 414ce rosewood with the new Taylor ES2 system. I say this and I am a BOSE fan that really wanted to like the BOSE S1.
I would have had to use another mixer/preamp to get a nice thick tone. With the Mini Charge, it was plug and play. I have had the same luck with my LB Performer and LB Artist. I use K&K + Sunrise in a 914 and K&K and/or M80 in an 814 cocobolo LTD.
Now that is just me- others are really liking the BOSE S1. I went back twice thinking maybe I didn't give it a fair shake. Your mileage may vary.
davidc

This is a validating post that mirrors my experience. I want to revisit the Bose and see if it sounds decent with my pedal board set up. I have a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ preamp that I use to shape tone with the very clean EQ section. It can send a hotter signal to any amp if needed. But after reading posts like yours, I could have written those same words. I may not give the S1 anymore mindshare. I am already in good shape.